Illegal Immigration Reform-Guest Worker Program & Anchor Babies& Border Fence

[mrbowler]

This topic usually fires everyone up...so here goes. As some may know from
my previous posts on this topic I'm against a Guest Worker Program(not sure if it should be called a guest) my reason is for two reasons-First I believe the arguement that they are only doing jobs americans would not do is not a solid arguement..I believe that Americans will do the job if you allow Supply/Demand(oops that is only valid if corporations benefit), also it would allow for more automation taking place in certain agriculture areas. Also my concern of security issues, and how can you legalize something that is illegal?
In regards to Anchor Babies..I've seen various arguements into whether the interpretation of wording of current law allows babies born in the United States from Illegal Immigrants...it does seem unlawful that just because someone comes into the United States Illegally that the child is given legal status?? Lastly I've read various articles which say that a fence could reduce flow by 80% if constructed properly with sensor technology etc. Seems to me that this is a viable option, and would not be like the berlin wall since that was used to keep people in..the border fence would be used to keep people out. Seems more democratic governors in the Southwest states are in support of action. I'm in favor of legal immigration which we can control the numbers. Let folks go the legal route instead of the illegal route.

Poll: Most Americans favor border fence:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

Anchor Babies and Interpreting the 14th Amendment:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

[mrbowler]

Here is just a follow-up in regards to governors. These are a couple months old-so more info. may apply.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

"My people on my side asked me to take this step, and I've done so reluctantly," Richardson told CNN. "As governor, I have to protect the people I represent."

[mrbowler]

I think the idea of increased employer enforcement..go after the employers with criminal charges, and cut off the money flow, and I think you will have
a major reduction in illegal flow.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

[whitequeen96]

Yes, I'm a "bleeding-heart liberal," but I agree with you on this matter. I feel terribly sorry for the people on the other side of the border, and nothing would stop me from trying to cross it (legally or not) if my child would get substantial benefits from it. So I understand why they cross, and they have my sympathy. But if we remove the incentives (especially the anchor baby), we could concentrate our energies and capital on helping to improve things for them over in Mexico.

As for the "undocumented workers" that are already here, I'm not sure what to do about them. If we refuse to give them medical treatment, they can become a source of disease to us. If we don't educate their children, they might be forced into lives of crime, causing problems for all of our people. And I understand New Orleans is being rebuilt by illegal aliens, who truly ARE the only ones who want the jobs being offered. They are getting $10 an hour (an enormous sum in Mexico), and most Americans don't want the jobs, perhaps because they are afraid of long-term effects from the contaminants. (That's what I'd be afraid of!) Either the "illegals" don't know about this, or are so desperate that they have to ignore these concerns. Perhaps, as they are truly needed, they should be allowed to stay afterwards, as a reward for their work. I'm not sure . . .

[mrbowler]

Originally Posted by whitequeen96

Yes, I'm a "bleeding-heart liberal," but I agree with you on this matter. I feel terribly sorry for the people on the other side of the border, and nothing would stop me from trying to cross it (legally or not) if my child would get substantial benefits from it. So I understand why they cross, and they have my sympathy. But if we remove the incentives (especially the anchor baby), we could concentrate our energies and capital on helping to improve things for them over in Mexico.

As for the "undocumented workers" that are already here, I'm not sure what to do about them. If we refuse to give them medical treatment, they can become a source of disease to us. If we don't educate their children, they might be forced into lives of crime, causing problems for all of our people. And I understand New Orleans is being rebuilt by illegal aliens, who truly ARE the only ones who want the jobs being offered. They are getting $10 an hour (an enormous sum in Mexico), and most Americans don't want the jobs, perhaps because they are afraid of long-term effects from the contaminants. (That's what I'd be afraid of!) Either the "illegals" don't know about this, or are so desperate that they have to ignore these concerns. Perhaps, as they are truly needed, they should be allowed to stay afterwards, as a reward for their work. I'm not sure . . .

I understand from a illegal alien perspective the incentive to come, and if I was in their shoes would have a high likelihood of doing the same. I believe a multi-prong approach would work-criminal charges against employers that illegally hire, local law enforcement no rounding illegal aliens up, but if local law enforcement comes in contact from illegal acts they should be allowed to work with immigration to speed the process-I've read about computer checks being done(I'll post article if I can locate). Possibly cutting off wire transfer of funds to mexico(not sure what the legal status is?) You make valid points in regards to medical treatment & education-I saw a presentation on tv a little while back in how mexican families bus into the United States for School. You raise a great point about how New Orleans is being rebuilt by Illegal Aliens-one of the main issues is that the lack of housing for American Workers, and I'm sure business is tickled pink being allowed to do whatever they can get away with. EPA deemed it safe Read this by the NRDC...just sweep it under the rug.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

"The test results so far reveal that sediment contamination by certain substances, such as arsenic and diesel fuel, is widespread in the neighborhoods of Mid-City, Lakeview, New Orleans East, Uptown/Carrollton, the Garden District, Bywater, the Ninth Ward, Gentilly and beyond. Arsenic and diesel fuel contaminants were found in all of these areas at levels that exceed the soil cleanup guidelines for residential neighborhoods issued by the EPA's Region 6 office, which is responsible for five states including Louisiana, and the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality (LDEQ). This widespread contamination from arsenic and diesel fuel is primarily a long-term health concern if residents move back into the city and the problem is never cleaned up. Many years of exposure to these contaminants could increase the risk of cancer, neurological damage or other chronic health problems.

In addition, the testing identified some 'hot spots' where there are potentially very serious problems created by contamination carried by the hurricanes from toxic sites into residential neighborhoods. For example, we identified high levels of banned pesticides traveling from an industrial site toward a residential neighborhood in Mid-City, and high levels of PAHs traveling onto the grounds of a senior citizens' center near a toxic waste site in Bywater.

Until it is cleaned up, contamination such as this is a serious health concern for residents returning to these neighborhoods."

[mrbowler]

"And I understand New Orleans is being rebuilt by illegal aliens, who truly ARE the only ones who want the jobs being offered. They are getting $10 an hour (an enormous sum in Mexico), and most Americans don't want the jobs, perhaps because they are afraid of long-term effects from the contaminants"

I have to disagree that most americans don't want the jobs...I have people talk about dirty jobs that no american wants to do-Tell me I see Americans working in dirty coal mines, and check out this video (a couple months old)...
I'm sure leadership has made all necessary changes

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

[whitequeen96]

Sorry, I don't have DSL, so watching a video takes WAAAAAAAYYYYYY too long. So forgive me if I'm saying stuff already addressed in the video.

Coal mining is certainly a dirty, dangerous job; no doubt about that! But don't they get paid more than $10/hour? I certainly hope so!

As for aliens doing the jobs Americans don't want, my understanding is that the construction companies in New Orleans really did go begging for workers. Of course, I'm sure they are happy to hire "illegals," as they can get away with lots of things OSHA, the unions, and the Board of Labor would never countenance!

[kells3]

I live is San Diego and I think that there should be a guest worker program. They really do have the jobs that nobody wants. They work in fast food when not even teenagers want to work there. My sons girlfriend is a manager at Mc Donalds. She will ask one ot the teenagers to do something like sweeping when it is not busy and they do a sloppy job. If she says something to them they say min. effort for min. wage. Come on min. wage is almost $7 an hous and they think thats nothing. They live at home so for them thats a good wage. Now the aliens (legal probably at Mc Donalds but I don't know) work hard for their money. The same with maids (dirty job, low pay) etc. Now we are not talking about dirty jobs that pay well but dirty min. wage jobs. These people only want to take care of their families and if they can't do that in their homeland then they are going to come here. At least if there was a program they would have to be treated fairly by the people that hire them.

[mrbowler]

Originally Posted by whitequeen96

Coal mining is certainly a dirty, dangerous job; no doubt about that! But don't they get paid more than $10/hour? I certainly hope so!

Yes that is the point I was making..that if you pay more at some point you will attract American Workers that are willing to accept jobs-you are allowing business & workers to reach a standard at which both are accepting. If you get a chance watch the program Dirty Jobs-It shows American workers doing dirty jobs everyday.

[mrbowler]

Originally Posted by kells3

I live is San Diego and I think that there should be a guest worker program. They really do have the jobs that nobody wants. They work in fast food when not even teenagers want to work there. My sons girlfriend is a manager at Mc Donalds. She will ask one ot the teenagers to do something like sweeping when it is not busy and they do a sloppy job. If she says something to them they say min. effort for min. wage. Come on min. wage is almost $7 an hous and they think thats nothing. They live at home so for them thats a good wage. Now the aliens (legal probably at Mc Donalds but I don't know) work hard for their money. The same with maids (dirty job, low pay) etc. Now we are not talking about dirty jobs that pay well but dirty min. wage jobs. These people only want to take care of their families and if they can't do that in their homeland then they are going to come here. At least if there was a program they would have to be treated fairly by the people that hire them.

I agree that if you are a employee you agree to the pay, and should give
your best effort...If they are legal then I have no problem with them working..My problem is when you allow Illegal Aliens to work in the United States or creating a large pool of (Guest Workers) you depress the pay scale for the low end workers..I don't understand why we need to allow the United States to become a dumping ground for Illegal/Legal Workers.

[mrbowler]

Looks like the security/drug issue may play more importance after recent events..This has been going on for quite some time, but it appears that the government has decided it needed to show action since to many people are watching the issue, and the general public has info.

Men in Mexican Army Uniforms in Border Standoff, Official Says:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

"Men in Mexican military-style uniforms crossed the Rio Grande into the United States on a marijuana-smuggling foray, leading to an armed confrontation with Texas law officers, authorities said Tuesday."

Border face-off involved men in Mexican army uniforms:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

The confrontation on Monday took place was near Neely's Crossing, about 50 miles east of El Paso, and started when state police tried to stop three sport utility vehicles on Interstate 10. The vehicles made a quick U-turn and headed south toward the border, a few miles away, Glancey said.

When the SUVs reached the Rio Grande, police saw the occupants of a green, Mexican army-style Humvee apparently waiting for the convoy, Glancey said.

Police stopped and watched as the vehicles began to cross the shallow river into Mexico. Both sides -- the Americans and the smugglers -- had their weapons drawn.

One SUV got stuck in the river, and another blew a tire on the Texas side. Its driver ran into Mexico.

Men in the Humvee tried to tow the stuck vehicle out of the river. When that failed, a group of men in civilian clothes began unloading from the SUV what appeared to be bundles of marijuana. They then torched the SUV, Glancey said.

Deputies found about 1,400 pounds of marijuana in the vehicle that had a flat tire. The vehicle had previously been reported stolen from El Paso.

[mrbowler]

Finally some action

Hope some other states follow suit.

Governor signs order to expand Guard role on border:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

[mrbowler]

Hopefully some other long awaited proposals..Still believe that a crackdown on employers would take the incentive to cross the border(s).

Senate committee votes on immigration measures:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

[mrbowler]

Why don't we secure the borders first from Drug Operators, Possible National Security Risks, and Illegal Immigration-also take away the incentives..then as we are able to get a better handle on the situation-we would find out if the laws of supply & demand work-if wages would rise and americans would fill the vacant jobs. Why take all the added risks if it is not necessary by having a guest worker program-seems the president is to worried about helping keeping costs down for business instead of national security, and security for americans.

Bush pushes guest-worker plan ahead of key debate:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

[mrbowler]

Past experience of Guest Worker Programs..

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

In 1917, during World War I, an agreement was reached with Mexico to let in unskilled workers. During the program's five-year life span, 77,000 Mexicans were admitted but fewer than half returned to Mexico. "The program spawned illegal immigration," Briggs said.

Possible Alternatives:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

"Under the House bill, employers would have to confirm the authenticity of employees' Social Security numbers against a national database of legitimate numbers or face stiff new fines of as much as $25,000 per violation. The measure would end the "catch and release" policy for immigrants other than Mexicans who are caught entering the country illegally and then released with a court date. All illegal immigrants apprehended at the border would have to be detained, and deportation processes would be streamlined.

Criminal penalties for smuggling immigrants would be stiffened, with new mandatory minimum sentences. Immigrant gang members would be rendered inadmissible under any circumstance. Mandatory minimum sentences would be established for immigrants who reenter illegally after deportation, and local sheriffs in the 29 counties along the Mexican border would be reimbursed for detaining illegal immigrants and turning them over to federal custody."

Under an amendment approved Thursday night, the nation would spend more than $2.2 billion to build five double-layer border fences in California and Arizona, totaling 698 miles at $3.2 million a mile. Another amendment approved last night would empower local law enforcement nationwide to enforce federal immigration law and be reimbursed for their efforts.

"But leaders also rejected proposed amendments to eliminate automatic citizenship for babies born to illegal aliens on U.S. soil and to build a fence along the entire southern border."