Illegal Immigration Reform-Guest Worker Program & Anchor Babies& Border Fence

[mrbowler]

Originally Posted by katlnhats

Hmmm, what happens in this instance when you put some action to work? Pretty much nothing!
We're ""supposedly"" trying to keep illegals from crossing over - we are not succeding, and there are so many already here that nobody will ever find, this approach seems idiotic.
Kat

I realize that this isn't the entire fix, but at least finally a token gesture to control the border. This is more then just illegal immigration-it is about national security risks, drugs, cheap labor, crime, costs $$.

[mrbowler]

I find the recent action by Hazleton, PA quite fascinating...you have local governments taking the lead on the Illegal Immigration issues(landlords, employers). I would prefer if this was done on a larger scale(state,federal).
These towns are fed up with the lack of enforcement or leadership on a larger scale, and are stepping in. Not sure about the legality-can you make/say to a apartment(owner) that he has to follow this, but someone house/place that they don't?? I wonder whether they will be able to actually enforce this-or will this just simply make it so that anyone who is a Illegal Immigrant will simply just move to a different place


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Lou Barletta says illegal immigrants are overfilling schools in Hazleton, Pa., cramming local health clinics and overrunning the playground where he once played basketball.
Barletta, mayor of the city of 22,000 south of Wilkes-Barre, says illegal immigration is "destroying small towns" that don't have the budget to deal with the influx.

So Barletta proposed a law that fines landlords for renting to illegal immigrants and punishes employers for hiring them. The City Council passed the measure, and Barletta signed it into law last month. To implement it, Barletta wants to require renters to go to City Hall and obtain a permit assuring landlords that they are in the USA legally. That would require a background check with the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Barletta says that even though the law isn't in effect yet, it's having an impact: "People are leaving daily."

Hazleton's requirements are strict, but other communities also are targeting landlords and employers. A similar law passed recently in Riverside, N.J., and others are being drafted or voted on in several other communities where leaders have complained for months about inaction by federal lawmakers.

"If a byproduct of this is to send out a message and embarrass the people out in D.C., then maybe that's good," says Andy Anderson, a councilman in Palm Bay, Fla. The city of 93,000 is one reading away from adopting a law that would fine anyone who employs an illegal immigrant a minimum of $500.

Similar measures are scheduled for votes in the Pennsylvania towns of Allentown (population 107,000), Shenandoah (5,300) and Mount Pocono (3,000). Local legislators in Gadsden, Ala. (population 37,400), Kennewick, Wash. (61,000), and Escondido, Calif. (134,000), are considering proposing legislation. A bill was narrowly rejected in Avon Park, Fla. (8,900).

Opponents, however, are lining up for a fight in Hazleton.

"This is a test case that will serve as a model for challenges around the country," says criminal defense lawyer David Vaida of Allentown, Pa. He has joined forces with the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund and the Pennsylvania chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union and says they are preparing a lawsuit.

"I don't think there was a municipality in the country until this came up that has ever required such a thing," he says. "Have you ever heard of a tenant needing an occupancy permit?"

Kris Kobach, once an immigration adviser to former attorney general John Ashcroft, disagrees. He says it is possible to draft a local ordinance that deals with immigration that will stand up to judicial scrutiny. He has helped several states draft immigration-related bills, including one in Utah that would penalize employers. Four states have passed similar laws this spring: Georgia, Louisiana, Colorado and Pennsylvania.

"States and localities bear a significant amount of the burden for dealing with illegal aliens, but the federal government bears the brunt of enforcing the law," Kobach says. "And when they don't, states and local governments pay the price."

Joseph Turner, an activist in San Bernardino, Calif. (population 199,000), pushed the idea before Hazleton adopted its law. The City Council declined to vote on it, and Turner was unable to gather enough signatures to put it on the ballot. He says passage across the country will "put enormous pressure on the federal government to come up with a solution that will finally solve this problem once and for all."

Barletta, meanwhile, says he has been contacted by officials from 30 towns asking for a copy of Hazleton's law.

[mrbowler]

Georgia working to confront Illegal Immigrants...its not pretty, but needs to be done...Isn't it kinda funny how you view illegal immigrants when your paycheck depends on it.

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Immigration raids make a ghost town in Georgia:

"The poultry plant is scrambling to replace more than half its workforce"
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The B&S convenience store, owned by Keith and Regan Slater, the mayor's son and grandson, has lost about 80 percent of its business.

"These people come over here to make a better way of life, not to blow us up," complained Keith Slater, who keeps a portrait of Ronald Reagan on the wall. "I'm a die-hard Republican, but I think we missed the boat with this one."

Since the mid-1990s, Stillmore has grown dependent on the paychecks of Mexican workers who originally came for seasonal farm labor, picking the area's famous Vidalia onions. Many then took year-round jobs at the Crider plant, with a workforce of about 900.

Crider President David Purtle said the agents began inspecting the company's employment records in May. They found 700 suspected illegal immigrants, and supervisors handed out letters over the summer ordering them to prove they came to the U.S. legally or be fired. Only about 100 kept their jobs.
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The poultry plant has limped along with half its normal workforce. Crider increased its starting wages by $1 an hour to help recruit new workers.

Stacie Bell, 23, started work canning chicken at Crider a week ago. She said the pay, $7.75 an hour, led her to leave her $5.60-an-hour job as a Wal-Mart cashier in nearby Statesboro. Still, Bell said she felt bad about the raids.

"If they knew eventually that they were going to have to do that, they should have never let them come over here," she said.

[katlnhats]

My opinion of illegal immigrants based on what I know and have seen in CT.
1. Let them rent, usually ONE of them is legal and that's who will prove legality. It won't work.
2. I personally know several illegals (does anyone else here?) that come here, work for a year or so, have 'familys' in Mexico, take the money and go back, where our dollars account for a lot more in Mexico---does anyone realize that these people are living better than most of us? Also, they will never think of the USA as their country, they're not staying here! This is the place to make $$, not to want to live in.
3. That plant that is down to 100 employees? If they'd hired LEGAL people to work there in the first place, they'd have no problem. IE: The person who left Walmart to work there, as she's making more!
4. Welcome to MexAmerica, and yes, I'm totally against this.

Kat

[mrbowler]

Originally Posted by katlnhats

My opinion of illegal immigrants based on what I know and have seen in CT.

2. I personally know several illegals (does anyone else here?) that come here, work for a year or so, have 'familys' in Mexico, take the money and go back, where our dollars account for a lot more in Mexico---does anyone realize that these people are living better than most of us? Also, they will never think of the USA as their country, they're not staying here! This is the place to make $$, not to want to live in.

Kat

It is a system in which the corruption in the mexican government encourages the exportation of workers into the United States to help support half the country that lives in poverty-it is much easier to do this, and it acts as a release valve of anger against the mexican government. Instead of the United States government working against this policy we have for a long time encouraged it because we need the flow of oil from mexico.

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Here is a view of the Bush stance:
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[katlnhats]

True.But since we want everyones oil, why is illegal immigration so encouraged from this one place so much? All I've heard from illegals I've talked to around here and it's kind of funny that they come all the way to CT, and then leave again, is that they "Want to go home." Not that I can blame them for that - everyone has a place they call home, in this case, it's Mexico.
I've made friends with several, only to see them leave and "maybe" when they need more money, they'll be back. We've taught each other Spanish and English, which is fun. They aren't bad people the ones I've known, they just are not supposed to be here.
I've also seen them "pretend" not to understand a lick of English when they speak it very well, if it serves their purpose.

Saw a joke;
Recording: Welcome to the United States of America. Press one for English.
Recording: Welcome to the United States of America, press two if you cannot speak English and call back when you can!

Kat

[mrbowler]

Originally Posted by katlnhats

True.But since we want everyones oil, why is illegal immigration so encouraged from this one place so much? All I've heard from illegals I've talked to around here and it's kind of funny that they come all the way to CT, and then leave again, is that they "Want to go home." Not that I can blame them for that - everyone has a place they call home, in this case, it's Mexico.
I've made friends with several, only to see them leave and "maybe" when they need more money, they'll be back. We've taught each other Spanish and English, which is fun. They aren't bad people the ones I've known, they just are not supposed to be here.

Kat

If offers a large pool of low-skilled workers (in most cases) in which employers can use to exploit. We need to create a policy which encourages folks to make changes to the homeland that they come from-create a more equitable situation, elimination of corruption. You know I read(hear) about how folks from mexico just want to go back home, but if you look at the data-it sure doesn't seem that way...maybe they do decide to do that after they reach a point in which they wish to retire from working, and mexico offers them a better deal. I view all people the same-you have good, bad, and all sorts of gray..and what I view in each category I'm sure others would beg to differ. If the United States is able to secure it's borders, enforcement of employers, etc. then we could figure out what kind of economic decisions need to be made in regards to how much labor inflows to allow.

[mrbowler]

I came across this article. I would imagine that this is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall abuse by business. Shows the flaws in checking social security numbers-on the positive side: I bet more Americans are gainfully employed "doing jobs americans don't want to do"


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GREELEY, Colo. (AP) - Federal agents investigating identity theft arrested immigrants at meat processing plants in six states Tuesday, shutting down production as workers' relatives scrambled to bring proof they were legally employed.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said an unknown number of workers were arrested on immigration violations and criminal warrants stemming from a nearly yearlong investigation.

ICE chief Julie L. Myers told reporters in Washington that illegal immigrants and others had stolen or bought the identities and Social Security numbers of perhaps hundreds of U.S. citizens and lawful residents. She said some immigrants had genuine U.S. birth certificates.

Myers said the suspects were trying to get jobs with Greeley-based meat processor Swift & Co., which bills itself as an $8 billion business and the world's second-largest meat processing company.

The company's facilities raided Tuesday were in Greeley, about 45 miles north of Denver; Grand Island, Neb.; Cactus, Texas; Hyrum, Utah; Marshalltown, Iowa; and Worthington, Minn., representing all of Swift's domestic beef processing capacity and 77 percent of its pork processing capacity.

No charges had been filed against the company, whose president and chief executive, Sam Rovit, issued a news release denying knowingly hiring illegal workers.

Company officials did not immediately return a call Tuesday afternoon.

Since 1997, Swift has used a government pilot program to check Social Security numbers. Company officials have said one shortcoming may be the program's inability to detect when two people are using the same number.

Hundreds of workers' relatives gathered outside the plants. One Utah sheriff's deputy described the scene as a circus.

"They've got three buses, a bunch of transport vans, a lot of cars and 150 or so agents," chief Cache County deputy David Bennett said.

The United Food and Commercial Workers planned to ask a judge to stop the raids, the union said in a news release, but there was no word on when or where the request would be filed.

ICE officials didn't notify the sheriff's department about the raid, Bennett said. "They didn't ask for our help," he said. "We were lucky to find out."

Grand Island Police Chief Steve Lamken said he refused to let his officers take part in the raid.

"When this is all over, we're still here taking care of our community and if I have a significant part of my population that's fearful and won't call us, then that's not good for our community," he said.

ICE officials said the total number of arrests might not be released until Wednesday.

It was not clear how long the plants were shut down.

ICE has raided poultry plants in the South in search of illegal immigrants. In July 2005, nearly 120 people were arrested at a plant in Arkadelphia, Ark. Three months ago, agents arrested a similar number who worked at a plant in Stillmore, Ga., or lived nearby.

[mrbowler]

This is good

I like the idea of executives doing some jail time

Border Fence Firm Snared for Hiring Illegal Workers:

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A fence-building company in Southern California agrees to pay nearly $5 million in fines for hiring illegal immigrants. Two executives from the company may also serve jail time. The Golden State Fence Company's work includes some of the border fence between San Diego and Mexico.

After an immigration check in 1999 found undocumented workers on its payroll, Golden State promised to clean house. But when followup checks were made in 2004 and 2005, some of those same illegal workers were still on the job. In fact, U-S Attorney Carol Lam says as many as a third of the company's 750 workers may have been in the country illegally.

Golden State Fence built millions of dollars' worth of fencing around homes, offices, and military bases. Its president and one of its Southern California managers will pay fines totaling $300,000. The government is also recommending jail time for Melvin Kay and Michael McLaughlin, probably about six months.

It is exceptionally rare for those who employ illegal immigrants to face any kind of criminal prosecution, let alone jail time. Earlier this week, for example, immigration raids on six meat-packing plants netted almost 1,300 suspected illegal workers. But no charges were leveled against the company that runs the plants: Swift.

Golden State Fence's attorney, Richard Hirsch, admits his client broke the law. But he says the case proves that construction companies need a guest-worker program.

[katlnhats]

Hi,
A "Border Fence" company? LOL The very type of company that's supposed to keep them out, is hiring illegal immigrants? They not only should be fined, how about hiring a different company, one who's not hiring illegals in the first place? Beyond ridiculous!

Personally, and this also applys to the meat plant as well, a loss of business will make a heck of a lot more impact on the company than a one-time fine.

What are they doing with the illegals? I'm almost afraid to ask!!!

Kat

[mrbowler]

Employer helping illegal immigrants get fake immigration papers...A good example of how sweet it is to avoid paying employment taxes & exploit the undocumented labor pool while avoiding hiring american workers(oops-jobs americans won't do

"Rosenbaum, Cunningham and Flocken allegedly skimmed money from the company to finance a luxurious lifestyle that included multiple houses in Florida and California, race horses and boats, the indictment said"

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