Runaway Judges?

[trust no one]

We will not stand for judges who undermine democracy by legislating from
the bench and try to remake the culture of America by court order." President George W. Bush
August 22, 2004




In the case that has America talking, we must pay homage to the courts and the Judges for their efforts to focus on the Constitution, the precedents, and law of the land, and not attempting to “remake the culture of America” as the President and the Republican Congress have shamelessly tried to do over the past week.

The President owes a heartfelt thank you to all the judges that have rendered decisions in this case for proving their worth and value to our society even under the great pressure created by the politically motivated Republican legislature and Executive Office. The Courts have continued to do the right thing under the law and under our culture and mores, proving, yet again, it is the judicial branch that is the stable, conscience third of our government. The renegades or runaways, as we have just witnessed, proved to be the legislative grandstanders vying for a politically charged wedge issue. Shame on the Republican Congress, and, more importantly, shame on our President for acting as a catalyst toward this created national division and legislative nightmare.

[blueaguave]

was it wrong when Congress and the Federal Government "intervened" on behalf of Civil Rights in the 60s? After all, the Judges of Alabama, Georgia, etc had ajudicated blacks to be less citizens than whites. Poll taxes, back of the bus, segregation, etc were LEGAL..under the terminology being used by today's left, the Feds "intervened" themselves in a state matter ("state's rights") and thwarted the will of the racist judges.

[trust no one]

Originally Posted by blueaguave

was it wrong when Congress and the Federal Government "intervened" on behalf of Civil Rights in the 60s? After all, the Judges of Alabama, Georgia, etc had ajudicated blacks to be less citizens than whites. Poll taxes, back of the bus, segregation, etc were LEGAL..under the terminology being used by today's left, the Feds "intervened" themselves in a state matter ("state's rights") and thwarted the will of the racist judges.

If you are going to make a flawed comparison, I will present a little comparative history.

In the sixties, the Federal government interceded for the most part with Federal Judges superseding, and making decisions in conflict to the state court’s and the state's legislative decisions. The National Guard enforcing the Federal court’s decisions followed the intervention. In this case, Federal judges agreed with the state courts’ decisions, so, no injustice, according to our Federal courts exist.

But you bring up a great point; if the President truly believed a civil injustice was occurring, the immediate powers of the President are almost infinite -he could call out the National Guard immediately to force the state and the doctors to comply with his wishes. He won’t; he will continue to use this truly unfortunate woman’s situation for his own political benefit.

[luvmetender]

What I want to know is this -

If Terri was truly "communicating, talking, sucking on washcloths, swallowing on her own" (as reported on Hannity yesterday by a nurse that took care of her for 6-8 months), why is there no video tape? The caretakers of Terri have had 15 YEARS to capture video to support these claims.

Goodbye Terri, I know you are going to a better place.

[trust no one]

On March 22, both CNN's Live From... and Fox News' Fox and Friends aired interviews with Carla Sauer Iyer -- a former nurse for Terri Schiavo who in 2003 submitted an affidavit with inflammatory accusations against Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo -- but failed to report questions about Iyer's credibility. Judge George W. Greer, the Florida circuit judge who has presided over several aspects of the Schiavo case, dismissed Iyer's allegations as "incredible" and noted in a September 17, 2003, order that not even Terri Schiavo's parents sought her testimony in the case.

In both appearances, Iyer was presented as a former nurse for Terri Schiavo. Fox introduced her as a "registered nurse in Florida" who "cared for Terri for more than a year between '95 and 1996." In addition, on-screen text described Iyer as "Carla Sauer Iyer; Cared for Terri Schiavo." On CNN, Iyer was introduced as a "nurse who says that she cared for Terri Schiavo [for] more than a year in the mid-1990s." As with Fox, CNN's on-screen text described Iyer as "Terri Schiavo's former nurse." Another on-screen text line presented on CNN stated that Iyer "testified about Terri Schiavo's physical state." However, according to Greer's September 2003 order, Schiavo's parents had not subpoenaed Iyer to testify.

In both a 2003 court affidavit (posted on the website operated by Terri's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler) and her March 22 cable appearances, Iyer maintained that Terri Schiavo was constantly "alert and oriented" while under her care, "saying such things as 'mommy,' and 'help me.' " She claimed that "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death. Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that ***** gonna die?' " The affidavit also included her claims that Michael Schiavo expressed the desire to "accelerate" Terri's death, that when Terri was sick and looked as if she might die, "He [Michael] would blurt out 'I'm going to be rich,' " and the assertion that "[i]t is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin" to intentionally make her sick. She claimed in her affidavit that "I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day."

Greer dismissed Iyer's charges, noting that they -- along with a similar affidavit given by Heidi Law, another nurse who formerly took care of Terri Schiavo -- were "incredible to say the least" and that "[n]either in the testimony nor in the medical records is there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail activities and responses of Terri Schiavo." From Greer's decision:

The remaining affidavits deal exclusively with events which allegedly occurred in the 1995-1997 time frame. The court feels constrained to discuss them. They are incredible to say the least. Ms. Iyer details what amounts to a 15-month cover-up which would include the staff of Palm Garden of Lago Convalescent Center, the Guardian of the Person, the Guardian ad Litem, the medical professionals, the police and, believe it or not, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. Her affidavit clearly states that she would "call them (Mr. and Mrs. Schindler) anyway because I thought they should know about their daughter." The affidavit of Ms. Law speaks of Terri responding on a constant basis. Neither in the testimony nor in the medical records is there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail activities and responses of Terri Schiavo. It is impossible to believe that Mr. and Mrs. Schindler would not have subpoenaed Ms. Iyer for the January 2000 evidentiary hearing had she contacted them as her affidavit alleges.

[luvmetender]

Thanks, trust no one. Where do you find this stuff??

[blueaguave]

Originally Posted by trust no one

But you bring up a great point; if the President truly believed a civil injustice was occurring, the immediate powers of the President are almost infinite -he could call out the National Guard immediately to force the state and the doctors to comply with his wishes. He won’t; he will continue to use this truly unfortunate woman’s situation for his own political benefit.

I agree, armed Federal Marshalls should have been sent by Bush to remove Terri into protective custody. Wasn't there a Congressional Subpoena issued for her to testify? That alone could be a pretext. Hush Bimbo defends Bush and says "We [conservatives] can't pull a Janet Reno."
I say, why not. A woman's life is at stake and there are significant doubts as to what she would have wanted.

[mayfly]

She is suffering now. This article says it is not like someone with cancer who is in the dying process.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

Dr. David Stevens, executive director of the Christian Medical Association in Bristol, Tenn., has worked in some of Africa's poorest nations.


He recalls watching people die of dehydration with symptoms that include thick saliva, severe cramps and dry heaving. As their mucous membranes and intestines dry out, they bleed from the mouth and nose, and begin to hallucinate.


Stevens says the quiet death that physicians often associate with dehydration comes to patients whose bodies were already shutting down from cancer or another terminal illness.


"That's a whole different thing than someone like this, whose body is in metabolic equilibrium," he said.

[blueaguave]

Originally Posted by mayfly

She is suffering now. This article says it is not like someone with cancer who is in the dying process.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

Dr. David Stevens, executive director of the Christian Medical Association in Bristol, Tenn., has worked in some of Africa's poorest nations.


He recalls watching people die of dehydration with symptoms that include thick saliva, severe cramps and dry heaving. As their mucous membranes and intestines dry out, they bleed from the mouth and nose, and begin to hallucinate.


Stevens says the quiet death that physicians often associate with dehydration comes to patients whose bodies were already shutting down from cancer or another terminal illness.


"That's a whole different thing than someone like this, whose body is in metabolic equilibrium," he said.

yes, I was taught some of these things in outdoor survival classes. That is the TRUTH about de-hydration, not the Nazi propoganda that the Old York Times printed, "Starvation death painless way to die". This is one of the sickest things I have ever seen. 10 year old girls bringing Terri water have been arrested.
But Jeb and George are not stepping in. Ole Jeb cancelled an appearance today to avoid pro-life/pro-Terri demonstrators.
Maybe rightwing vigilantes will storm the hospice and resuce her? Who knows.

[bobbcat]

Just think back to the Elian Gonzalez debacle. Was there a court order to snatch that kid? I don't think so. Did anyone get into trouble? Jeb and Dubya have stuffing for balls.

[trust no one]

Originally Posted by bobbcat

Just think back to the Elian Gonzalez debacle. Was there a court order to snatch that kid? I don't think so. Did anyone get into trouble? Jeb and Dubya have stuffing for balls.

MSNBC political analyst and former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan advocated sending "federal marshals" into the hospital room of Terri Schiavo to reinsert her feeding tube. Yet when the Clinton administration sent U.S. marshals to seize Elian Gonzalez from his great-uncle's Miami home and return him to Cuba in 2000, Buchanan described the government's intervention as "a police-state tactic one associates with a Communist tyranny, not the United States."

On the March 23 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews, Buchanan asserted: "What George Bush ought to do right now is send federal marshals in and pick up Terri Schiavo and put that ... food and hydration tube back into her." Buchanan added: "Action [by the president] ... creates consensus."

Yet, when "[e]ight helmeted, SWAT-equipped federal agents broke down the front door of the Miami home of Elian Gonzalez's relatives before dawn yesterday and removed the boy," as The Washington Post reported on April 23, 2000, Buchanan had a very different reaction, despite the fact that in that case, the federal government was acting to "enforce the decision of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the federal court," as then-President Bill Clinton noted. As a March 23 Knight Ridder Newspapers article noted about the Schiavo case: "State courts have sided with Michael Schiavo, who insists his wife told him she would never want to be kept alive artificially."

On April 22, 2000, the Associated Press reported Buchanan's condemnation of federal action in the Elian Gonzalez case:

The predawn Easter weekend raid on the home of the Miami family of Elian Gonzalez was a police-state tactic one associates with a Communist tyranny, not the United States. The devoted family that gave Elian months of love and affection was treated like a gang of kidnappers. But the real kidnapper of Elian Gonzalez is Fidel Castro; Mr. Clinton and [then-Attorney General] Janet Reno acted as his accomplices.

[bobbcat]

Who cares what Buchanan thinks? I don't. We now have the 'police state tactic' in the form of black-robed men who have gone a bit beyond mere interpretation of the law (hearsay does not stand up in the court of law). The Shindlers who only want to take care of their daughter are being dismissed in deference to a man who should be looked upon as a bigamist (as he has a common law wife-look it up-FL law says if you cohabit with another for 7 years, you can sue for half their estate) at the worst, an adulterer at the very least. This man is worthy to be this woman's guardian? Hardly. This case is so full of holes it is not funny. It is the least the Bush's could do to intervene and let the chips fall where they may. Otherwise we can all be treated to watching our country go down the road to utter oligarchy (ruled by the courts) as the balance of power between the 3 branches of gov't is severely crippled right now.

[blueaguave]

this country is down a bad road now. It looks like neither member of the Bush monarchy will intervene. Was it all a show by Bush and the GOP Congress?
At least, many on the left broke on the side of life. If that is a silver lining, some politicians DO put the party lines aside and have a heart. Jesse Jackson Jr and Sr, Jose Serrano (D-Bronx) and many others.
But overall, it is sad. The masses will listen to Hush Bimbo and/or watch Jon Stewart, thinking they are smart. We will all be good little Germans now.
Vee vere just following orders.

[trust no one]

Originally Posted by bobbcat

(hearsay does not stand up in the court of law).

Of course, this statement is not an absolute. "Hearsay" under certain conditions is allowable to be presented to a judge as evidence.

As we all know, in criminal procedures it is much, much harder to present "hearsay" as evidence, inculpatory or not. This case was not criminal, so the rules regarding "hearsay" are different.

[trust no one]

Originally Posted by bobbcat

Who cares what Buchanan thinks? I don't. We now have the 'police state tactic' in the form of black-robed men who have gone a bit beyond mere interpretation of the law (hearsay does not stand up in the court of law). The Shindlers who only want to take care of their daughter are being dismissed in deference to a man who should be looked upon as a bigamist (as he has a common law wife-look it up-FL law says if you cohabit with another for 7 years, you can sue for half their estate) at the worst, an adulterer at the very least. This man is worthy to be this woman's guardian? Hardly. This case is so full of holes it is not funny. It is the least the Bush's could do to intervene and let the chips fall where they may. Otherwise we can all be treated to watching our country go down the road to utter oligarchy (ruled by the courts) as the balance of power between the 3 branches of gov't is severely crippled right now.

It becomes apparent now all these "renegade judges," as the president called them, made the correct decision. Should President Bush apologize to the bench as a whole for politically interfering and attempting to create disdain toward our judicial system?