Speaking of the marriage amendment...

[prism68]

Y'all know I am a Zell groupie from way back, seeing how he raised teacher's salaries each year while he was Governor- this is what he said on the Senate floor recently:
(bold emphasis mine)

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Zell Miller (D-GA) today delivered the following statement on the floor of the United States Senate addressing several social issues facing the country:

"The Old Testament prophet Amos was a sheep herder who lived back in the Judean hills, away from the larger cities of Bethlehem and Jerusalem. Compared to the intellectual urbanites like Isaiah and Jeremiah, he was
just an unsophisticated country hick.

"But Amos had a unique grasp of political and social issues and his poetic literary skill was among the best of all the prophets. That familiar quote of Martin Luther King, Jr. about 'Justice will rush down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream' are Amos's words.

"Amos was the first to propose the concept of a universal God and not just some tribal deity. He also wrote that God demanded moral purity, not rituals and sacrifices. This blunt speaking moral conscience of his time warns in Chapter 8, verse 11 of The Book of Amos, as if he were speaking to us today:

That 'the days will come, sayeth the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land. Not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the word of the Lord.
'And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east. They shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.'

'A famine in the land'. Has anyone more accurately described the situation we face in America today? 'A famine of hearing the words of the Lord.'

"But some will say, Amos was just an Old Testament prophet - a minor one at that - who lived 700 years before Christ. That is true, so how about one of the most influential historians of modern times?

"Arnold Toynbee, who wrote the acclaimed 12 volume A Study of History, once declared, 'Of the 22 civilizations that have appeared in history, 19 of them collapsed when they reached the moral state America is in today.'

"Toynbee died in 1975, before seeing the worst that was yet to come.Yes, Arnold Toynbee saw the famine. The 'famine of hearing the words of the Lord.' Whether it is removing a display of the Ten Commandments from a
Courthouse or the Nativity Scene from a city square.

Whether it is eliminating prayer in schools or eliminating 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance. Whether it is making a mockery of the sacred institution of marriage between a man and woman or, yes, telecasting around the world made-in-the-USA filth masquerading as entertainment.
"The Culture of Far Left America was displayed in a startling way during the Super Bowl's now infamous half-time show. A show brought to us courtesy of Value-Les Moonves and the pagan temple of Viacom-Babylon.

"I asked the question yesterday, how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car? I have many times and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through a car wash and it's still there. So the scent of this event will long linger in the nostrils of America.

"I'm not talking just about an exposed mammary gland with a pull-tab attached to it. Really no one should have been too surprised at that. Wouldn't one expect a bumping, humping, trashy routine entitled 'I'm going to get you naked' to end that way.

"Does any responsible adult ever listen to the words of this rap-crap? I'd quote you some of it, but the Sergeant of Arms would throw me out of here, as well he should. And then there was that prancing, dancing, strutting, rutting guy evidently suffering from jock itch because he kept yelling and grabbing his crotch. But then, maybe there's a crotch grabbing culture I'm unaware of.

"But as bad as all this was, the thing that yanked my chain the hardest was seeing that ignoramus with his pointed head stuck up through a hole he had cut in the flag of the United States of America, screaming about having 'a bottle of scotch and watching lots of crotch.' Think about that.
"This is the same flag that we pledge allegiance to. This is the flag that is draped over coffins of dead young uniformed warriors killed while protecting Kid Crock's bony butt. He should be tarred and feathered, and ridden out of this country on a rail. Talk about a good reality show, there's one for you.
"The desire and will of this Congress to meaningfully do anything about any of these so-called social issues is non existent and embarrassingly disgraceful. The American people are waiting and growing impatient with us. They want something done.

"I am pleased to be a co-sponsor of S.J. Res. 26 along with Senator Allard and others, proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relating to marriage. And S.1558, the Liberties Restoration Act, which declares religious liberty rights in several ways, including the Pledge of Allegiance and the display of the Ten Commandments.

And today I join Senator Shelby and others with the Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 that limits the jurisdiction of federal courts in certain ways.

"In doing so, I stand shoulder to shoulder not only with my Senate co-sponsors and Chief Justice Roy Moore of Alabama but, more importantly, with our Founding Fathers in the conception of religious liberty and the terribly wrong direction our modern judiciary has taken us in.

"Everyone today seems to think that the U.S. Constitution expressly provides for separation of church and state. Ask any ten people if that's not so. And I'll bet you most of them will say 'Well, sure.' And some will point out, 'it's in the First Amendment.'

"Wrong! Read it! It says, 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.' Where is the word 'separate'? Where are the words 'church' or 'state.'
"They are not there. Never have been. Never intended to be. Read the Congressional Records during that four-month period in 1789 when the amendment was being framed in Congress. Clearly their intent was to prohibit a single denomination in exclusion of all others, whether it was
Anglican or Catholic or some other.
"I highly recommend a great book entitled Original Intent by David Barton. It really gets into how the actual members of Congress, who drafted the First Amendment, expected basic Biblical principles and values to be present throughout public life and society, not separate from it.

"It was Alexander Hamilton who pointed out that 'judges should be bound down by strict rules and precedents, which serve to define and point out their duty.' Bound down! That is exactly what is needed to be done. There was not a single precedent cited when school prayer was struck down in 1962.
"These judges who legislate instead of adjudicate, do it without being responsible to one single solitary voter for their actions. Among the signers of the Declaration of Independence was a brilliant young physician from Pennsylvania named Benjamin Rush.

"When Rush was elected to that First Continental Congress, his close friend Benjamin Franklin told him 'We need you. . . we have a great task before us, assigned to us by Providence.' Today, 228 years later there is still a great task before us assigned to us by Providence. Our Founding
Fathers did not shirk their duty and we can do no less.

"By the way, Benjamin Rush was once asked a question that has long interested this Senator from Georgia in particular. Dr. Rush was asked, are you a democrat or an aristocrat? And the good doctor answered, 'I am neither. I am a Christocrat'.

I believe He, alone, who created and redeemed man is qualified to govern him.' That reply of Benjamin Rush is just as true today in the year of our Lord 2004 as it was in the year of our Lord 1776.

"So, if I am asked why - with all the pressing problems this nation faces today - why am I pushing these social issues and taking the Senate's valuable time? I will answer: Because, it is of the highest importance. Yes, there's a deficit to be concerned about in this country, a deficit of decency.
"So, as the sand empties through my hourglass at warp speed - and with my time running out in this Senate and on this earth, I feel compelled to speak out. For I truly believe that at times like this, silence is not golden. It is yellow."

[Rockabillie]

what has happened to that man? He seems deranged, ranting and rambling on. He sure has changed.

[twonky]

Originally Posted by Rockabillie

what has happened to that man? He seems deranged, ranting and rambling on. He sure has changed.

Before I write too much on this, is your intent just to post one off comments with nothing to back it up or are you interested in a real discussion? Do you have any comment on the actual content of what he said or are you content with just ad hominems?

[Mom2Serve]

Originally Posted by Rockabillie

what has happened to that man? He seems deranged, ranting and rambling on. He sure has changed.

Since when is quoting historians, the Bible, founding fathers and the U.S. Constitution "deranged or rambling"? It's called FREE SPEECH also given to prism68 under the U.S. Constitution which she/he very accurately quoted. It is actually pretty impressive to me that someone knows that there is NO mention of separation of church and state in the U.S. Constitution. It's called history before it was rewritten to be politically correct....

[bobbcat]

Great post, Angela. Glad you shared it.

Rockabillie's response illustrates a tacit approval of the societal decadence we see all around us in this country. Wonder if he is aware of that.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by bobbcat

Rockabillie's response illustrates a tacit approval of the societal decadence we see all around us in this country. Wonder if he is aware of that.

True... isn't it amazing that conservatives with the cajones to say what they think- are dismissed as 'ranting, rambling, etc.'.

But then I think Zell rocks

I only wish there were more voices like his; makes me wonder why the Democrats won't pay more attention to him now.

He WARNED them for years that their party would die away if it didn't stop buddying up with the extremists- now they have lost so much ground, yet they continue on.

Georgia is now completely Republican-controlled; Jimmy Carter home state or not

[Rockabillie]

Practicing free speech doesn't make one immune to madness. Free speech allows everyone to express their beliefs, no matter how rationally based it may or may not be--The two are in no way related. Just because we have free speech doesn't automatically make everything everyone says always rational and sane--that's a very naive assumption.

Yes, I think Zell Miller has changed, duh anyone can agree to that. When people completely change personalities and speak agaist long-held values, it's often a sign of mental illness or breakdown, that's no secret. You hear many people talk about how as their parents age, they become unbalanced, changing life-long values, quoting biblical references out of context, being angry at people. Yes, I stand by my original statment. The man has lost it, he is rambling and crazy.

Please note: It isn't WHAT he says that makes me say he's ranting, it's HOW he says it. That's an important and not so subtle distinction. It is his style, lack of logical order, rambling, that makes me call him ranting (look it up in the dictionary).

My response to him is he's too rambling, illogical, scattershot, to deserve a response. I have the right to refuse to take him seriously, since he can't present his thoughts in a logical, rational manner.

[FredFlash]

Originally Posted by prism68

Everyone today seems to think that the U.S. Constitution expressly provides for separation of church and state.[/B] Ask any ten people if that's not so. And I'll bet you most of them will say 'Well, sure.' And some will point out, 'it's in the First Amendment.'

"Wrong! Read it! It says, 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.' Where is the word 'separate'? Where are the words 'church' or 'state.'[/B]
"They are not there. Never have been. Never intended to be. Read the Congressional Records during that four-month period in 1789 when the amendment was being framed in Congress. [B]Clearly their intent was to prohibit a single denomination in exclusion of all others, whether it was
Anglican or Catholic or some other.

What exactly is it in the Congressional Records that convinces you that the intent of the framers was to prohibit a single denomination in exclusion of all others?

Fred

[FredFlash]

Originally Posted by Mom2Serve

It is actually pretty impressive to me that someone knows that there is NO mention of separation of church and state in the U.S. Constitution.)

What do you think separation of church and state means; and why did James Madison find it in the Constitution, but you don't?

Fred

[FredFlash]

Originally Posted by prism68

"Everyone today seems to think that the U.S. Constitution expressly provides for separation of church and state. Ask any ten people if that's not so. And I'll bet you most of them will say 'Well, sure.' And some will point out, 'it's in the First Amendment.'

"Wrong! Read it! It says, 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.' Where is the word 'separate'? Where are the words 'church' or 'state.' "They are not there. Never have been. Never intended to be. Read the Congressional Records during that four-month period in 1789 when the amendment was being framed in Congress. Clearly their intent was to prohibit a single denomination in exclusion of all others, whether it was Anglican or Catholic or some other. "I highly recommend a great book entitled Original Intent by David Barton. It really gets into how the actual members of Congress, who drafted the First Amendment, expected basic Biblical principles and values to be present throughout public life and society, not separate from it.

If their intent was as you claim they would have said, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a single denomination in exclusion of all others..."

Fred

[mrbowler]

I thought this quote quite interesting:

We establish no religion in this Country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever: Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief. At the same time our Constitution prohibits state establishment of religion, it protects the free exercise of all religions. And walking this fine line requires government to be strictly neutral.

-- Ronald Reagan