Basic Moral Values Interpreted as "Extremism"

[bobbcat]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

This is just amazing stuff. These libs cannot accept the fact that it is they who are out of the mainstream here. Where is the evidence that the country is in the throes of religious extremism?

[Shainie]

Because we follow the bible and have moral values, we're "extremists".

Whatever. I won't support a man who supports anti-Christian values. My salvation is at stake.

Someone said something here once that stuck with me. Something like "If I believe in God, and in the end he's NOT real. I lose nothing. If you don't believe in God, and in the end he IS real, you lose everything".

[mayor]

Originally Posted by Shainie

Whatever. I won't support a man who supports anti-Christian values. My salvation is at stake.

Really? My understanding of scripture is that once you are saved, you can't lose your salvation. How can you have any kind of eternal security if you can get un-saved based on something like a vote for someone immoral? Don't get me wrong... I'm on your side. I'm just curious how you cope with this belief system. I think it would make me nuts trying to figure out whether not I am "in" or "out"!

Someone said something here once that stuck with me. Something like "If I believe in God, and in the end he's NOT real. I lose nothing. If you don't believe in God, and in the end he IS real, you lose everything".

Very true. However, it goes deeper for me. Having encountered God in my own life, there is nothing that could possibly persuade me that He isn't real and that the Bible isn't true. I've got way too much evidence to the contrary that I would have to close my eyes to.

Mayor

[clc]

Originally Posted by Shainie

Because we follow the bible and have moral values, we're "extremists".

No, that is not what makes you an extremist. But telling me that I have to live by YOUR values, even though nearly half of the country says that they are also horse poop, does make you an extremist.

If you truely followed the Bible, you would allow whomever is in charge at the end to make the decision. But no, instead you think it's a good idea for the government to tell us which morals are right and wrong - based upon your view agreeing with what they say they believe in.

The country isn't as red as some would like us to think. Instead it is a rather interesting shade of PURPLE! This is a map we got in class today - pretty, isn't it?

If that doesn't work, you can see the map and how to read it at [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

[prism68]

Originally Posted by clc

No, that is not what makes you an extremist. But telling me that I have to live by YOUR values, even though nearly half of the country says that they are also horse poop, does make you an extremist.

...you think it's a good idea for the government to tell us which morals are right and wrong - based upon your view agreeing with what they say they believe in.

Do Liberals/Democrats/Whomevers not see the absurdity of this statement?!

YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING TO US!!!
Sheesh, I can't believe how many times I read that same, lame argument.

YOU think the GOVERNMENT should legalize gay marriage and abortion and all the other things I view as horrid- thereby imposing YOUR values on ME.

This thing right here gives me a headache more than most because I feel like I am running around screaming that the emperor has no clothes

[bobbcat]

Angela, you shold know by now that the libbies don't have a firm grasp on the simple concept that "what's good for the goose is good for the gander." They are all about displays of the double standard and acts of hypocrisy.

[clc]

prism and bobbcat, you two need to get a grip. Why should it bother you if other people do things you don't like? Are they coming to your house and forcing you to have gay sex and abortions or somethng? If so, then I could see where you could say that people are FORCING something on you.

Since this obviously is so not the case, then maybe you can see where legislating what I can do with my body and who I can marry would be FORCING your skewed views on me! I don't know where you get off that I'd even want or need an abortion or marriage to anyone anyway but it seems that you all like THINKING that you're superior to others just because you have more money and are obviously old and set in your ways. Too bad really, but maybe if you got out of your house more often you could meet people who have had different experiences in life and learn from them.

[bobbcat]

clc, get off your high horse. You do not know me. You do not know my values. You have no conception of what my definition of stepping on your territory comprises.

If anyone around here needs to get a grip, it is you, for jumping to conclusions before you have enough information.

[luvmetender]

Originally Posted by bobbcat

clc, get off your high horse. You do not know me. You do not know my values. You have no conception of what my definition of stepping on your territory comprises.

Ok, so tell us.

What I am understanding from this mindset is that:

1) Government says stem-cell research is wrong

2) Government says abortion is wrong

3) Government says gay marriage is wrong

BUT!

4) How dare the government meddle in providing health insurance

[crazytimes]

You make a good point luv.

[bobbcat]

From whose mindset, luv? Not mine, that is for sure. Perhaps you can provide some links to back up your assertions.

The stem cell research thing comes from Bush being against federal funding for research on embryos not already harvested. This would hardly stop stem cell research, as private funding will surely continue.

The abortion issue has remained controversial despite the strong unlikelihood that RvW will ever be overturned. Even if it ever was, the matter would revert back to the states. Hardly a reason for women to hold onto their precious wombs for dear life. There will still be places to go to kill your baby legally. So breathe a big sigh of relief on that score.

The gay marriage issue should have been left well enough alone. Civil unions were sweeping the country (albeit at a slow pace, but some progress is better than none) before this frenzied scramble to throw this issue in peoples' faces like so much doggie poop that people just can't stand it. Now, gays have set themselves back by not being smart and biding their time. Whose fault is that?

As for gov't meddling in health care, that is the last thing anyone with only an ounce of common sense wants to see, as gov't never makes money, it only collects it. Once it takes over health care, count on it to pick your pocket and everyone else's to pay for the health care. Of course, there won't be enough money to go around, so the care will have to be rationed. Just take a look at Canada to see just what a bit of rationing will do.

[mayor]

Originally Posted by crazytimes

You make a good point luv.

No, she doesn't. Abortion (murder), Stem Cell research (sanctity of life) and denigrating the institution of marriage (which has been the foundation for civilized cultures for centuries) is NOT in the same league as whether or not the Government provides socialized medicine. Illogical reasoning leads to illogical conclusions.

Incidentally, regarding the abortion debate, I believe we have always had a national document that says all men are created equal and endowed by our Creator with three inalienable rights. LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Mayor

[luvmetender]

Originally Posted by mayor

No, she doesn't. Abortion (murder), Stem Cell research (sanctity of life) and denigrating the institution of marriage (which has been the foundation for civilized cultures for centuries) is NOT the same a whether or not the Government provides socialized medicine. Sorry, this analogy is empty.

Mayor

so the government is here to police republicans' view of morality?

[mayor]

Originally Posted by luvmetender

so the government is here to police republicans' view of morality?

I'm sorry, but I don't have time for a basic civics lessons and the legal foundation on which this country is founded. If you are REALLY interested in learning the answer to your question, and why your question would cause our Founding Fathers to spin over in their graves, may I suggest picking up any of their writings to begin with. George Washington, Ben Franklin, Noah Webster, William Penn, John Hancock... any of them. They were incredibly brilliant men with much to say to their posterity. Move on to Abraham Lincoln and what he had to say regarding morality and the role of government once you are ready. Read the rulings of Supreme Court Justices that took place any time before the Warren court, where the judges began writing law from the bench for the first time ever, setting a precedent that has led us down this slippery slope. How slippery is the slope? So slippery that well-meaning, sincere people are so confused that they can't even tell right from wrong anymore, let alone having a basic understanding of how America came to be and what our foundations are built on.

And people wonder why I say that the public school system has failed us. The fact is, you don't know what you don't know unless you know that you don't know. ;-)

Mayor

[prism68]

Originally Posted by clc

prism and bobbcat, you two need to get a grip. ...
it seems that you all like THINKING that you're superior to others just because you have more money and are obviously old and set in your ways. Too bad really, but maybe if you got out of your house more often you could meet people who have had different experiences in life and learn from them.

36 years young, closer to poverty level than you can imagine, out of my house way more than I'm in... yep, you've got it aaaaaaaaaallllllll figured out.