Red vs. Blue States

[trust no one]

The Tax Foundation has released a fascinating report showing which states benefit from federal tax and spending policies, and which states foot the bill.

The report shows that of the 32 states (and the District of Columbia) that are "winners" -- receiving more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 76% are Red States that voted for George Bush in 2000. Indeed, 17 of the 20 (85%) states receiving the most federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Red States. Here are the Top 10 states that feed at the federal trough (with Red States highlighted in bold):


States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

In contrast, of the 16 states that are "losers" -- receiving less in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 69% are Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000. Indeed, 11 of the 14 (79%) of the states receiving the least federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Blue States. Here are the Top 10 states that supply feed for the federal trough (with Blue States highlighted in bold):

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.6
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)

Two states -- Florida and Oregon (coincidentally, the two closest states in the 2000 Presidential election) -- received $1.00 in federal spending for each $1.00 in federal taxes paid.

[crazytimes]

Interesting that DC has the most...yet doesn't DC have some HORRIBLE schools and terrible crime problems??

[luvmetender]

What is with DC? They voted overwhelmingly democrat and have 3 times the federal spending of the next highest state?

[chippers21]

I wonder. It seems like nearly all the states that receive more per dollar of taxes are low population states that pay much lower total taxes. Could that have something to do with it? We still use Federal dollars to maintain and develop National Parks and reserve areas. Farmers receive all kinds of subsidys, most needing them just to stay in business. (I know when my family had a farm we could not make a living off it and had other jobs as well.)The higher population states I see listed here as getting less for their tax dollar- well I wonder if you isolated the "counties" that voted Democratic you would see the same divisions you mention. I know for a fact that rural New York votes Republican most elections and New York city carries the state. Rural New Jersey,etc. might also be that way for all I know.
I would like to see a county by county study, then I would be convinced of your point.
Then we could talk more about the meaning of such a study.

[crazytimes]

I think I figured out why DC is so high - national capital duh! Why didn't I think of that before! That money probably goes to fund all the monuments, museums, etc.

Anyways, you also have to remember that there are state and local taxes! When we lived in Chicago there were high property taxes, high sales tax, 18% rental car tax, I think a 14% hotel room, etc. These cities and states bring in WAY MORE in local and state tax money than smaller states.

Smaller communities simply CANNOT afford to have these high of taxes because it would really people away. Also, small communities often don't even have hotels or rentals companies, so they can't even start to tax them.

People move to Chicago and pay the high taxes, because they know that they (usually) wont have a hard time getting a job and the rate of pay is usually higher than in rural areas. And Chicago can afford such high tourism taxes, because THEY KNOW that people ARE GOING TO COME, no matter what the taxes are.

No one is going to move to the middle of the country and pay exorbitant tax rates, when they only have a choice of 3 jobs!

And like Chipppers said, there are things like national parks. I know right off the bat South Dakota has the Badlands, Mt. Rushmore, etc.

Something like this IS interesting but I would like to see a breakdown of the spending.

[mayor]

Originally Posted by crazytimes

Interesting that DC has the most...yet doesn't DC have some HORRIBLE schools and terrible crime problems??

You would think people would put two and two together on this.

MONEY does not make programs better or more efficient. If it is a Government program, the money will be wasted. This is why privatization, choice and personal responsibility are key messages of the conservative platform.

Mayor

[bobbcat]

It's just too bad though, that people still glom onto the notion of "security first" too intensely to allow truly progressive approaches such as privatization of SS or allowing the states to take over public education to even enjoy a trial run. Utterly disgusting.

[trust no one]

[quote=mayor MONEY does not make programs better or more efficient. If it is a Government program, the money will be wasted. Mayor[/QUOTE]

Here is a list of government programs and the conservative leaders think they programs are good, and solid

Interstate Highway system (George Will),
National Institutes of Health (John Kasich),
FAA (Bob Dornan, former Congressman and current talk show host ),
National Park System (Arianna Huffington), She was a Republican when she made the claim.
Social Security, Medicare, Head Start, Food Stamps, (Ben Stein),
FBI, and the GI Bill (Richard Viguerie, Republican fund raiser).

So, when you drive on an interstate highway to a national park, and you know a plane will not mistake the highway as a runway, thank the Federal government.

[crazytimes]

Originally Posted by mayor

If it is a Government program, the money will be wasted.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Obviously the government isn't the greatest at running some things, but I don't think their programs are that bad. I think a good example of a well run program is the college financial aid program in this country. Very efficient, you can apply online and get results in only a matter of weeks sometimes.

[mayor]

Originally Posted by trust no one

Interstate Highway system (George Will),
National Institutes of Health (John Kasich),
FAA (Bob Dornan, former Congressman and current talk show host ),
National Park System (Arianna Huffington), She was a Republican when she made the claim.
Social Security, Medicare, Head Start, Food Stamps, (Ben Stein),
FBI, and the GI Bill (Richard Viguerie, Republican fund raiser).

With the exception of SS/Medicare/Head STart, etc, we are not talking about social programs for the most part.

A handful of programs endorsed by conservatives is no excuse for the rampant pork barrel spending that goes on in Washington. unfortunately, a good number of Republicans suffer from the same syndrome.. gotta bring the money home for the locals...

Mayor

[mayor]

Originally Posted by crazytimes

I don't necessarily agree with this. Obviously the government isn't the greatest at running some things, but I don't think their programs are that bad. I think a good example of a well run program is the college financial aid program in this country. Very efficient, you can apply online and get results in only a matter of weeks sometimes.

I'm sure it is very cool. But here's my question. Why is the government in the business of giving financial aid to people who want to go to college? Where does that fit under "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

I guess that is one of the problems with the mentality in our country. Many people think they have the right to be happy. That is incorrect. They have the right to PURSUE happiness. That means government should not intrude or otherwise impede progress that an individual wishes to make in order to utilize his or her life and liberty to pursue that which makes he or she happy.

It's like this new mantra rising out of the democratic party, stating that "health care is a RIGHT". Really? Show me where in the constitution it says this...

We need to go back to the basics, IMO.

Mayor

[chippers21]

Having completed sending 3 of my 4 kids to college, I have mixed emotions about the financial aid issue. When I had 3 kids in college at the same time, we received all kinds of financial aid, including Grants to Harvard Law School. But as soon as we had only 2 in school we received very little, and when we were down to 1 we received 0 financial aid. So now here I sit with $30000 in college debts to pay back for my kids and one child in school who gets 0 financial aid.
What I am saying is that the government determines how much aid you receive based on how they perceive your income and little else. I now pay $500 a month in college loans, in addition to my normal bills AND I am paying to send the 4th child to college without need-based financial aid.
As usual it is tough being part of the middle class in this country: taxed outrageously and told we are not entitled to the so called "benefits" the government provides. I fully expect that SS will be the same for us. They already tax it. (How did we ever allow that to happen???) Soon they will give it out proportional to your other income. So if you were wise enough to save for retirement you will not receive SS, despite the fact you paid into it all your life. Of course I am just speculating here.

[kells3]

Mayor do you really think that some people should not receive health care? Especially the working poor that do work but can not afford the high cost of health care/insurance. Should we be like some poor countries where if say a child is born with a cleft pallett but their parent can't afford to pay for surgery they are to live that way?

[crazytimes]

Mayor,

The government provides subsidized Stafford loans. Not having to pay interest on these loans saves me a lot of money! I also try and pay the interest that has accrued on my private loans each month as well.

Also, what if someone wanted to go to college but had no credit (most young people DON'T and it's difficult to establish a history). How would they be able to take out a loan? What if their parents refuse to co-sign for them? Yes they do have those Parent PLUS loans, but many parents simply can't afford to pay their ADULT CHILDREN'S bills along with their own!

The government provides financial aid in the form of Pells Grants, yes, but ALSO Stafford and Perkins loans. MOST of my financial aid is not "government handouts" (I got an $800 Pell Grant this year) but loans that I WILL have to pay back in the future. And I am pretty sure that getting these loans has nothing to do with your credit history or lack thereof.

Of course college students can work and many do. But there have been studies that have shown that students who work UP to 20 hours a week perform better academically, but over 20 hours per week and academics begin to decline dramatically. Also, you generally have to pay your student bill BEFORE classes start or within the first few weeks. So having a job could help you save up but it's very difficult to pay it all at once if your only source of funds is coming from a part time job.

I also don't think that going to college is just about making oneself "happy." To me, I feel like the government is making an investment and their return is citizens who have college degrees and will hopefully (and often) become very productive members of society. Someone with a Bachelors working at an Accounting firm is going to pay a lot more in tax money and help the economy more than a high school dropout who works at McDonalds.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by crazytimes

Mayor,

...
I also don't think that going to college is just about making oneself "happy." To me, I feel like the government is making an investment and their return is citizens who have college degrees and will hopefully (and often) become very productive members of society. Someone with a Bachelors working at an Accounting firm is going to pay a lot more in tax money and help the economy more than a high school dropout who works at McDonalds.

Crazytimes, that college is paying off for you- see how smart you are already?
EXCELLENT point.

(coming from someone who is about 20K in college loan debt myself)