Red vs. Blue States

[FUNdamental]

Originally Posted by mrbowler

for example when Dr. Gupta questioned Michael Moore about that Health Care is "free". I don't know all the details of all the other systems that were compared in the movie, but if you look at it from Dr. Gupta's viewpoint-there is a cost, and somebody has picked up that cost. Now from Michael Moore's perspective a person could actually get "free" healthcare because I would imagine they didn't pay any taxes, costs.
From what I have listened to/seen Michael Moore used the available data to support his thesis in the movie(but I would need to watch entire movie to support this notion).

'Sicko' doesn't hide from the obvious fact that higher taxes are needed to pay for free, universal health care. Former UK MP Tony Benn reads from the National Health Service founding pamphlet, which explicitly states that "this is not a charity. You are paying for it mainly as taxpayers." And 'SiCKO' also acknowledges that the French are "drowning in taxes," a line that clearly stuck with Gupta since he used it himself during the broadcast.

The medical care in countries with socialized medicine is still free. Gupta doesn't seem to grasp that. Here in America, when you go to the library and check out a book, it's free. When the fire department puts out a fire at your house, it's free. In Canada, when you go into the hospital for chemotherapy, it's free. You don't walk out with a bill. Yes, citizens pay higher taxes in countries with socialized medicine, but they don't pay the premiums, co-pays, deductibles and other out-of-pocket medical costs that we face in America. Moreover, in other industrialized countries citizens are not bankrupted by huge bills during a medical crisis – as is the case in America, where the leading cause of bankruptcy is medical bills.

[FUNdamental]

Originally Posted by mayor

I have been without insurance and I have had to sacrifice my hard-earned money to purchase insurance.



Welcome to life after school.



Again, welcome to the real world! And congratulations! You are working hard and it WILL pay off for you. No one said it would be easy.



I believe your professor is misinformed. Please be advised that a majority of U.S. University professors come from a liberal bent and have an agenda. They WILL foist this agenda upon you, whether you know it or not. Be aware, and question EVERYTHING, especially when it comes to political issues. You don't want to end up a political parrot for either party.

Mayor

Will "Mayor" apologize for acting as an authority and expounding on something he knew nothing about? After all, he was wrong.

[FUNdamental]

Originally Posted by mayor

I'm sure it is very cool. But here's my question. Why is the government in the business of giving financial aid to people who want to go to college? Where does that fit under "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

We need to go back to the basics, IMO.

Mayor

Psssssst, Mayor,

Perhaps you have forgotten government policies and inactions over generations have prevented certain people from going to college. These policies allowed certain classes generational financial and Intellectual wealth with a certain stability while keeping other classes poor with little ability to move up.

[mrbowler]

Originally Posted by FUNdamental

Psssssst, Mayor,

Perhaps you have forgotten government policies and inactions over generations have prevented certain people from going to college. These policies allowed certain classes generational financial and Intellectual wealth with a certain stability while keeping other classes poor with little ability to move up.

I came across the article-thought it was well written, and described the general trend.(scroll down on page url).

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"Since the early 1970s, the cost of paying for public college, as a percentage of family income, has risen for low-income families from 42 percent to 71 percent, as opposed to a constant 19 percent and 5 percent for middle- and upper-income families, respectively," Padron wrote. "Up to 25 percent of academically qualified low-income students no longer even apply to college."

[mrbowler]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayor
I'm sure it is very cool. But here's my question. Why is the government in the business of giving financial aid to people who want to go to college? Where does that fit under "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

We need to go back to the basics, IMO.

Mayor

Psssssst, Mayor,

Perhaps you have forgotten government policies and inactions over generations have prevented certain people from going to college. These policies allowed certain classes generational financial and Intellectual wealth with a certain stability while keeping other classes poor with little ability to move up.

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I guess you could argue the case that since a person who graduates college will earn more then a person with a high school degree if you make it that low income individuals are not able to attain a higher degree of education that they are not being allowed "the pursuit of happiness". According to this study-if you look at the people that said they were pretty happy or very happy the study does show that 82.7%-87%-92.2%-94.7%...so according to this study people believe they are happier the more they move up the income scale/career.

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[FUNdamental]

Originally Posted by mrbowler

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayor
I'm sure it is very cool. But here's my question. Why is the government in the business of giving financial aid to people who want to go to college? Where does that fit under "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?

We need to go back to the basics, IMO.

Mayor

Psssssst, Mayor,

Perhaps you have forgotten government policies and inactions over generations have prevented certain people from going to college. These policies allowed certain classes generational financial and Intellectual wealth with a certain stability while keeping other classes poor with little ability to move up.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you could argue the case that since a person who graduates college will earn more then a person with a high school degree if you make it that low income individuals are not able to attain a higher degree of education that they are not being allowed "the pursuit of happiness". According to this study-if you look at the people that said they were pretty happy or very happy the study does show that 82.7%-87%-92.2%-94.7%...so according to this study people believe they are happier the more they move up the income scale/career.

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Good point for Mayor to see.

You know, the GI Bill after WWII was the best investment The U.S. Government ever made, allowing hundreds of thousands to go to college practically free of charge. The middle class swelled and prospered because of it. Unfortunately, the times were not so kind for a class of people who did not have the education background to get into or do well in college. While many prospered, created wealth, and improved the lives of their offspring and future generations, there were still many that stayed back because of the government getting in the way.

I am reminded of a situation in 1958 in Virginia where the school board dismissed letting Black kids into a white school because a Black school was being rebuilt for them at the time. The older kids were denied a HS Diploma because of the color of their skin and the timing of their birth. In 2002 Virginia recognized their mistake and offered HS Diplomas to all those affected. As we all know, to little, and much to late.

For mayor to disregard this period and assert the playing field is even is disgraceful. Many, many Whites created wealth for themselves and their families in the 19th and 20th centuries; blacks and others for a long time were prevented from doing so because of Government policies. Remember, Blacks were not able to attend the University of Alabama by the state’s legislature and past and present governors until the National Guard was finally called in the 1960’s. For a long time, Blacks only schools were under funded and extremely inconvenient to use. White Schools were always the first with for maintenance fixes. Student loans for everyone to go to college are a small part of fixing the brutal ways of the past- a past that still has modern consequences.

Does mayor see this point, or does he want to go back to the days where college was only for the offspring of the rich and /or well off? If he chooses to believe government funded student loans for everyone who can use them is wrong, then I guess he believes in a caste society in the United States. I really feel sorry for people like mayor who can’t understand history and it consequences.