Kerry's Medals

[luvmetender]

Can someone please explain to me why the Republicans are concentrating their efforts on Kerry and his war medals?

It is a much bigger issue that Bush didn't show up for his cushy guard duty.

[twonky]

Originally Posted by luvmetender

Can someone please explain to me why the Republicans are concentrating their efforts on Kerry and his war medals?

It is a much bigger issue that Bush didn't show up for his cushy guard duty.

I agree that both of these issues are non-issues for me. I wish both sides would lay off the history and focus on today and the future.

[crazytimes]

Agree.

It's a non issue and both sides need to stop focusing on things that are 30 years old and don't really effect us in this day and age.

[patti1]

I agree. How much have these two men changed and grown since those days? We have some urgent issues to debate. I wish we could just get on with it.

[JillyB71]

I was born in 1971 so I don't know the tone of the country at the time Kerry threw his ribbons. What did it mean for the veterans to throw them? Was it in protest of the war or of the government? And did Kerry throw medals or ribbons and what were they for? I know he said in the 80's that he threw medals and now he is saying it was his ribbons and another veteran's medals. What's the difference? And when asked recently if he would produce his medals as proof that he didn't throw them, he said he wouldn't because they were personal. Not to be splitting hairs here but it seems to me that whether this issue deserves attention or not, it's getting it. So why not produce the medals and get the issue resolved? When someone says they have something but won't do the simple act of proving it, I feel they have something to hide.

Slightly off topic here but I am sick and tired of each side being asked questions and instead of answering them, they point fingers at their opponent. I wish they could just answer what is being asked and let their platforms speak for themselves. It reminds me of when my brother and I were kids and he would try to get himself out of trouble by telling my mom about something I'd done wrong.

[ShainaT]

I must say that I was glad to see today that Kerry is fighting back!! He called Bush out on his supposed National Guard duty. The funny thing is IF Bush had 3 purple hearts and Kerry had a fishy National Guard story it would be ALL over the news and would never die.


Kerry needs to pick a VP candidate soon. He is out there taking all the flak and needs some help IMO.

[freesurfer]

IMO, I think what they did or didn't do, and how they acted when it comes to the army, navy, ...ect...is a big thing. I think it shows alot about the man.

[luvmetender]

Originally Posted by freesurfer

IMO, I think what they did or didn't do, and how they acted when it comes to the army, navy, ...ect...is a big thing. I think it shows alot about the man.

If you want to go by that criteria, do you agree that Kerry was the bigger soldier than Bush?

[ShainaT]

Originally Posted by luvmetender

If you want to go by that criteria, do you agree that Kerry was the bigger soldier than Bush?

I (of course) absolutely agree!! Kerry at least has fellow military soldiers who can vouch for him. Plus THREE PURPLE HEARTS!!

[twonky]

Originally Posted by luvmetender

If you want to go by that criteria, do you agree that Kerry was the bigger soldier than Bush?

There are a lot of people that have been in the military their whole life that never saw combat. Do you think they aren't 'bigger soldiers' as well?

I don't know enough about the Bush thing. If he did the job he signed up for, how can you fault what he did? It seems all I hear about is speculation and opinion about what he did.

Is there any source out there that is factually reporting that he did something wrong here?

[mayor]

I agree that BOTH are non-issues to voters today. Both sides should shut up about it.

However, don't give too much credence to Kerry's purple hearts.

This article proposes that it is all smoke and mirrors. Perhaps Kerry was just looking for a way home? Read and decide...

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/...t-656749.shtml

I edited some out, but it is too good.. so here goes..
----------------

According to Kerry's own description in Douglas Brinkley's Tour of Duty, the Dec. 2, 1968, mission behind what he has claimed to be his first Purple Heart was "a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat." In the confusion, Kerry claims to have received a "stinging piece of heat" in the arm, the result of a tiny piece of shrapnel. He was not incapacitated and continued with regular swiftboat-patrol duty. William Shachte, who oversaw this ad hoc mission, was quoted by the Boston Globe as saying Kerry's injury, from whatever source, "was not a serious wound at all."

But Kerry met with his immediate superior officer, Lt.Cmdr. Grant Hibbard, the next morning and requested a Purple Heart for his wound. Hibbard recalls that Kerry had a "minor scratch" on his arm and was holding in his hand what appeared to be a fragment of a U.S. M-79 grenade, the shrapnel that had caused the wound. "They didn't receive enemy fire," Hibbard tells Insight. Since this was an essential requirement for the award, the commander rejected Kerry's request. Hibbard does not remember that Kerry received medical attention of any kind and confirms that no one else on the mission suffered any injuries.

Shortly thereafter, Kerry was transferred to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi. Apparently, Kerry petitioned to have his Purple Heart request reconsidered. Hibbard remembers getting correspondence from Kerry's new division, asking for his approval. In the hurried process of moving to a new command himself, Hibbard thinks he might have signed off on the award. If so, "it was to my chagrin," Hibbard remembers. Kerry's second commander, Lt.Cmdr. G.M. Elliott, says he has no recollection of such an event ever occurring.

There are no written records of Kerry's magical first Purple Heart on file at the Naval Historical Center in Washington, the nation's primary repository for such documentation. A Purple Heart normally is not requested but is awarded de facto for a wound inflicted by the enemy - a wound serious enough to require medical attention. The Naval Historical Center keeps all documents connected to such awards to U.S. Navy and Marine personnel. These typewritten "casualty cards" list the date, location and prognosis of the wound for which the Purple Heart is given, and they are produced by the medical facility that provides treatment for the combat wound at the hands of the enemy. There are two such cards for Kerry - for his slight wounds on Feb. 20 and March 13, 1969, but none for his December 1968 claim.

After receiving a Purple Heart for the March 13 scratch and bruise, Kerry sought an early pass out of combat duty, invoking the informal Navy "instruction" known as 1300.39. According to the Boston Globe, 1300.39 meant an officer could request a reassignment from his superior officer after receiving three Purple Hearts. The instruction states that, rather than being automatic, the reassignment would "be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." Of the 138 servicemen and officers in Kerry's unit who received Purple Hearts during the time he was there, records indicate only two received more than two. These were Lt.(jg) Jim Galvin and a boatswain's mate named Stevens. When Insight reached Galvin he said all three of his Purple Hearts were the result of shrapnel or glass shards. Such minor injuries were common on PCF boats with their glass windows and thin metal hulls, and, like Kerry's, Galvin's injuries were not serious enough to take him out of combat for more than a few days.

Unlike Kerry, Galvin elected to stay with his men. Indeed, though a professional Navy officer, he never had heard of instruction 1300.39. It was not until early April of 1969, when Galvin noticed that Kerry was preparing to leave the officers' barracks at An Thoi that he learned about "three Purple Hearts and you're out." According to Galvin, it was Kerry who told him, "There's a rule that gets you out of here and I'm getting out. You ought to do the same." Galvin remembers, "He seemed to take care of everything pretty quickly," because that was the last time Galvin saw Kerry in Vietnam.

The three-times wounded Galvin stayed with his men, transferred to Cam Ranh Bay to get them a respite from the dicey Mekong Delta, and eventually left the swiftboats for destroyer school.

------------------

[JillyB71]

Originally Posted by JillyB71

I was born in 1971 so I don't know the tone of the country at the time Kerry threw his ribbons. What did it mean for the veterans to throw them? Was it in protest of the war or of the government? And did Kerry throw medals or ribbons and what were they for? I know he said in the 80's that he threw medals and now he is saying it was his ribbons and another veteran's medals. What's the difference? And when asked recently if he would produce his medals as proof that he didn't throw them, he said he wouldn't because they were personal. Not to be splitting hairs here but it seems to me that whether this issue deserves attention or not, it's getting it. So why not produce the medals and get the issue resolved? When someone says they have something but won't do the simple act of proving it, I feel they have something to hide.

Slightly off topic here but I am sick and tired of each side being asked questions and instead of answering them, they point fingers at their opponent. I wish they could just answer what is being asked and let their platforms speak for themselves. It reminds me of when my brother and I were kids and he would try to get himself out of trouble by telling my mom about something I'd done wrong.

Can anyone answer my questions?

[luvmetender]

I can try. It was in protest of the war. Supposedly back then, ribbons and medals were basically interchangeable terms. Kerry threw some out at a rally, but they were not his, they were those of another soldier that asked him to do it. Kerry has kept his.

And can I just say that this whole issue is just STUPID. Is this the biggest thing the Bush campaign and Rush and Hannity can harp on? Lame....

[mayor]

Actually, Rush says it is a non-issue. But you don't really listen to him, do you?

[luvmetender]

I try.. he is on here from 12 to 3 and it's not accessible on the internet. So that leaves me with airamerica