Are things like faith and love instinctive?

[Pipanella]

chippers posted in a different thread:

Faith = Belief is a gift from God. In my humble opinion you can only have faith if you ask God for that gift.

That got me to thinking about something. I know that God gives people the measure of faith to believe, and I believe He also gives us the capability to love. Do you believe that the ability to love is something you are born with, or is it something you are taught by God via other people in your life? And if that is true, then what about faith? Are you born with the ability to have faith or is it taught as well?

[Mouse7088]

Part of me thinks that everyone is born with both abilities (to some extent/degree)and our teachings either builds on or tears down these "instincts"....sort of like a lion cub, they're born with an instinct to hunt, BUT Mama builds on that born instinct even through play.

[Pipanella]

That's what I think, too, Paula.

[telos2000]

It depends on which kind of love you are talking about. Eros, which is the raw sexual kind of love, is instinctive. All animals have 'eros' and pursue it to satisfy self. Reproduction is a by-product. Phileo, which is brotherly love, comes initially from the family unit. It is family love, that kind of love we say is thicker than water. It comes from learning. Then there is Agape, which is the self-sacrificing kind of love. The love where one gives it freely without thought of self.

Agape is best seen in us as husbands and wives and as fathers and mothers. The Greeks reserved this love in its perfected form for supreme beings. Paul uses it for God's love. The love it took to place His Son on the cross. It is the love we try to achieve in this life. To lay our lives down for our fellow persons as Jesus asks us to do. It is love that comes from a relationship. Just as a husband and wife form a relationship that, when things are right in the marriage, leads to bonds that cannot be broken. The two become one. The second stage is of parents. Most parents give sacrificially to their children. They would even lay down their lives for them. The next stage is where one would do this for a friend or a neighbor. And lastly, where one would do this for a stranger or an enemy.

Most of cannot imagine the third stage of Agape, much less the last stage. We cannot even understand why God would do it. Love, if we struggle to perfect it (which we can't) leads us to faith. The kind of faith it takes to believe in God. Not the kind of faith that it takes to believe in just anything. That kind of faith comes through experience. Like when you burn your finger on the stove as a child, you have faith that it will happen again if you touch it. So here we are stuck with "what do we mean by faith?" Jesus says we need to have the faith of a little child, yet can a child love sacrificially?

Having said all of this, I am no closer to explaining faith than when I started. However, I believe (my humble opinion) that faith is the finishing touch on love. If love is not a part of the formula of faith, then the faith is false. Faith without love is worthless. So now I have stuck my neck out for chopping, but do it in love... okay?


Oh an by the way, "eros, phileo, and agape" are Greek words, just in case you didn't catch that.

[luvmetender]

Originally Posted by telos2000

However, I believe (my humble opinion) that faith is the finishing touch on love. If love is not a part of the formula of faith, then the faith is false. Faith without love is worthless.

That may be true. And I'm glad you said it that way instead of the other way around (that you have to have faith before you can love).

When you talk about faith, are you only referring to faith in a higher power? Can it be faith in human nature?

[telos2000]

Originally Posted by luvmetender

That may be true. And I'm glad you said it that way instead of the other way around (that you have to have faith before you can love).

When you talk about faith, are you only referring to faith in a higher power? Can it be faith in human nature?

From my perspective the first question would be yes and the second one no. You already knew that would be the way I would answer. But as I said before, it depends on how you choose to define faith. It depends on your perspective.

Secondly, I suppose it would also depend on how you define faith in human nature. If it is a learned response to how humans behave, I wouldn't call it faith. I would call that experience. If you mean it is predictable, I wouldn't call it faith then either. I would call that wisdom. There are many aspects to human nature and one's cultural filter will obviously strain out those aspects which you determine bad and leave the ones which are good. I would call that criminal justice. That of course assumes that you distinguish any of human nature as bad or good. It might not matter in some cultures. It might not matter to you. Maybe then you would call it faith to believe that human nature contains nothing bad.

[luvmetender]

ok, fair enough. Thanks for the response.

[mayfly]

This was a great post. I think the definition of faith is "believing without seeing", and yes, I think that God gives every man the measure of faith to believe in Him. I think thats why in every culture, over the centuries of human life, there has always been a Godhead. People are always searching for something to fulfill that faith.

I think we are born with the ability to love also, because we are born for relationship. We yearn for companionship, to be loved, and to fill someone with our love. Loneliness ensues if that yearning is not fulfilled.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by mayfly

...People are always searching for something to fulfill that faith.

...

Exactly. That is why the prisons are full of people who looked to drugs/alcohol/perversion to fill that role for them.

People put their faith in all kinds of wrong things, everyday, even if they say they are not 'people of faith'.

[freesurfer]

Do people realize the different kinds/types of love? I never really think of love in that many ways I guess.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by freesurfer

Do people realize the different kinds/types of love? I never really think of love in that many ways I guess.

I don't think we think of it, but we do it. I never heard of the types until I went through a study in Sunday School and they gave all the Greek names for love used in the Bible. It is pretty cool to think about it though, the self-sacrificing love for instance seems to be out of reach for most of us (except when it comes to our children maybe)

[mayor]

From Scripture, here is the definition of faith...

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. " - Hebrews 11:1

[mayor]

Originally Posted by prism68

I don't think we think of it, but we do it. I never heard of the types until I went through a study in Sunday School and they gave all the Greek names for love used in the Bible. It is pretty cool to think about it though, the self-sacrificing love for instance seems to be out of reach for most of us (except when it comes to our children maybe)

This is one reason people so easily divorce. They mistake "being in love" for loving someone. Eros love, the kind that "attracts" us to a member of the opposite gender, is too frequently the basis for a marriage. But the way God designed us is to strive towards His kind of love.

I once heard this definition.

"Agape love is seeking the other person's highest good, no matter what."

When we take our marriage vows and committment before God seriously, He equips us to approximate this kind of love more and more. Of course, we'll never fully reach it in this lifetime, but I've seen marriages falling to pieces that employed this kind of love be put back together to be deeper and more significant then ever before.

Mayor

[bobbcat]

Faith = Belief is a gift from God. In my humble opinion you can only have faith if you ask God for that gift.

I think faith is borne of a decision. I think this also applies to love. The evidence of these, IMHO, is unconditional acceptance. This entails dealing with anything and everything that is required to uphold all of that which illustrates the demonstration of that faith and love.

I think many marriages break down because people lose sight of that unconditional acceptance and stop putting forth the effort and selflessness that is required to keep a marriage intact. Surely, some relationships are harder to maintain than others, but that should not matter.

In my case, I hear people talk about the "hard work" that is involved in keeping a marriage together. It is lost on me, as I am fully aware of my hubby's flaws, as well as all the great things about him. It has never been "hard work" for me to do what I must do on my part to keep our relationship healthy. I suppose it helps a great deal if one feels blessed by one's partner.

I think the notion that one is part of something much bigger and grander than oneself goes a long way to bolster the idea that there is a good reason to have faith. I don't think this comes from instinct or a gift from God. Hard to say though. I have managed to garner the truly important things in life for which I have "prayed." I often feel blessed and say many "thank you" prayers, not knowing for sure if they are heard. What if they are, though?

Didn't mean to write a book.

[freesurfer]

Webster says:

Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is
declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his
authority and veracity; reliance on testimony


What the heck does that all mean then?