Issues 2-4: Affirm. Action, Economy, Education

[prism68]

Affirmative Action:
OK, so neither candidate supports quotas. Works for me

Economy:
Hmmm, Kerry is going to restore the jobs 'lost under Bush' in his first 500 days in office. Also wants to set up a State Tax Relief and Education Fund (sounds a lot like a cookie jar to me) so states won't have to make economy-threatening cuts. Only thing is, he doesn't have any specifics yet- still just pipe-dreaming you might say.
Bush is going to cut class-action lawsuit proceeds by moving more of them to federal courts. Gotta love anything that stops the mass abuse of the legal system Bush also wants to continue to cut the red tape and bureaucratic hoops that businesses have to jump through- always good news to me (deal with all the red tape I will need for a lifetime with my never-ending student loans)

Education:
An area near and dear to my teacher heart. I love Kerry's college ideas- College Opportunity Tax Credit and Service for College plan- just wonder where he is going to get the money; and fear it is out of MY pocket, directly.
Bush has increased teacher accountability (Can you say 'Hallelujah, it's about time!"?)...Wants to give Pell Grant incentives for those who work harder in high school; supports allowing children to leave failing schools (did I ever mention this is why I homeschool?! My daughter's zoned school has been a 'failing school' for the last 8 years.); And my favorite- he wants teachers to use research-proven methods for reading instruction!!!! Imagine the possibilities!!

Okay, so see where I am going with this? The more I read, the more I like Bush because it seems like GOOD, COMMON SENSE to me.
And the less I like Kerry because his lack of solid blueprints makes me leery (not just cause he looks eerily like Abraham Lincoln).

[freesurfer]

Bush has increased teacher accountability (Can you say 'Hallelujah, it's about time!"?)...

I gotta disagree a little here.....his No child left behind act has sure enough made teachers accountable but what about the students?? We've seen such a decline in student attitude, respect, ect towards schools cuz of this and they throw it in our faces that they cannot be "left behind"

[prism68]

Originally Posted by freesurfer

Bush has increased teacher accountability (Can you say 'Hallelujah, it's about time!"?)...

I gotta disagree a little here.....his No child left behind act has sure enough made teachers accountable but what about the students?? We've seen such a decline in student attitude, respect, ect towards schools cuz of this and they throw it in our faces that they cannot be "left behind"

Actually, Bush has supported the removal of unruly children from the classrooms so other children are able to learn. This is a radical idea whose time has come. There has been way too much coddling of children deemed 'special-needs' due to ADHD, etc.. Conduct disordered children are a prime example. These are basically juvenile delinquents that are ALLOWED to get away with cursing teachers, fighting, destroying property, etc. because it is part of their 'disability'. Hogwash I say and I am thrilled Bush addressed this, making it easier for systems to permanently remove these children.

[freesurfer]

I've seen no enforcement of this in our school or area and never even heard this side of it. We focus only on no child left behind.

[mayor]

The whole public educational system has a mafia-like stronghold. Scrap it and start again giving parents vouchers to send their kids wherever they deem best.

I pay almost $8000/year to send my kids to private school. Yet, I am also forced to pay property taxes that go towards public education. I get NO tax deduction for my investment in my kid's education. They will get a superior education to the public school system, but I pay twice.

Something is very wrong here, folks...

Mayor

[luvmetender]

Originally Posted by mayor

The whole public educational system has a mafia-like stronghold. Scrap it and start again giving parents vouchers to send their kids wherever they deem best.

I pay almost $8000/year to send my kids to private school. Yet, I am also forced to pay property taxes that go towards public education. I get NO tax deduction for my investment in my kid's education. They will get a superior education to the public school system, but I pay twice.

Something is very wrong here, folks...

Mayor

I agree with you, but the vouchers that were proposed here come nowhere close to paying for private school. If I remember correctly, it would have been 800 per child per year.

[mayor]

Originally Posted by luvmetender

I agree with you, but the vouchers that were proposed here come nowhere close to paying for private school. If I remember correctly, it would have been 800 per child per year.

Nope.. that wouldn't do much. What's interesting is that some school districts spend up to $20,000 per student! Gee whiz...

[luvmetender]

Originally Posted by mayor

Nope.. that wouldn't do much. What's interesting is that some school districts spend up to $20,000 per student! Gee whiz...

Can you show me a link to that kind of spending? I would love to show it to our local schoolboard.

[freesurfer]

Vouchers??

[prism68]

I would love to see some form of vouchers that came close to equalling the district expenditures. I teach privately out of my home now, my tuition is $350.00 per child. These parents are not all easily able to afford this, but are desperate for an option besides the abyss of public education.

I'd LOVE to see them be able to send their children to me without having to sacrifice so much in other areas. The public school system is waaaaaaaaaaaaay broken, IMO. Glad I got out when I did.

Oh, btw, as for how much is spent per child. In our district, the last year I worked in the public school- special needs children (my area) rec'd federal support at the rate of $8,700. per student. Regular education students rec'd about half that. Does this send off any alarm bells of why so many children are being 'diagnosed'?
Another interesting note- out of that $8,700. guess how much I rec'd for classroom materials? $200.00 for the whole year

[crazytimes]

Frankly it depends on the kids.

Maybe it's just my siblings and I were born smart, but we always did well in public school; got good grades, etc. Both my brothers are pretty successfull.

So the "abyss" that is public education served us well!

[prism68]

Originally Posted by crazytimes

Frankly it depends on the kids.

Actually, it depends more on the district you happen to be born into. Kind of like the good ol' caste system.

Originally Posted by crazytimes

Maybe it's just my siblings and I were born smart, but we always did well in public school; got good grades, etc. Both my brothers are pretty successfull.

So the "abyss" that is public education served us well!

Congratulations. Y'all were obviously blessed.

I did pretty well myself, graduated with a 4.0 from college and everything. That was lots of years ago though in a different time and place.

My kids happen to be pretty darned gifted (by every measure), too. However, our school system is a bloody nightmare. No it is an ABYS-mal failure. My son has managed to do ok in spite of it, partly because he had a scholarship to a private school at one point. Mostly because he is his own advocate. Out of a town with about 3,500 high school students, he was one of only 16 enrolled jointly at our university this year. He did that on his own; other parents stop me in the street to ask me how on earth my son got to do this- surely no one at the high school ever helped him.

I am sure there are some shining examples of public schools. However, I would assert they are the definite exception.

[Twinplets]

Originally Posted by crazytimes

Frankly it depends on the kids.
Maybe it's just my siblings and I were born smart, but we always did well in public school; got good grades, etc. Both my brothers are pretty successfull.

I got almost all A's in high school, including honors and advanced placement courses. Without even trying very hard. So when I got to college, I had no study skills, and had trouble keeping up. Granted, with all the advanced placement courses, I didn't have to take a lot of the intro classes in college, maybe if I had I'd have been more prepared, instead of starting out with second-year courses.

[crazytimes]

I guess I don't understand what is wrong with it? I'm not trying to be rude I just want to know what problems you have encountered.

[luvmetender]

crazytimes, I think twinplets just gave a very good example of the problems with many public schools. Even if you are an excellent student, compared to private school, it just doesn't cut it.