These are interesting times

[mayor]

I was reflecting on the state of our Nation tonight, making some personal observations about where we are as a society. The divisions in our nation are getting more clearly defined. While my eternal perspective is one of optimism (cause I know where I am going when this is all over), my hope for America is dwindling. We are following an obvious pattern that has repeated itself in history. Western Civilization as we know it is falling... rapidly.

Some of these comparisons with the ancient city of Rome bring up striking parallels to America 2004. I had read a piece on this a couple years back and was able to find a similar web page tonight.

Rome portrayed a facade of strength, wealth and power. However, underneath the illusion was growing decadence.

1) Rome trusted a multiplicity of Gods. Some of these were the mystery cults. You could find religions even more openly wicked. In Corinth, vestal virgins sold their bodies for money. Most heathen worship centered on immoral activities.

· America now trusts a multiplicity of Gods.

· Not only is the “I AM” God of the Judeo-Christian tradition worshiped, but the gods of buddism, hinduism, & islam are given “equal rights” with the Almighty.

· To make matters worse, satanism, garth, and pagan religions such as wiccan and other neopagan gods are also given “equal rights” in our society today.

2) Rome faced serious erosion of family ties. Prior to the first century A.D. few Romans divorced. Roman Senators enjoyed particularly stable homes. Then one Senator divorced his wife and opened the floodgates. By Jesus' time, divorce became so common that many openly ridiculed marriage.

· Is marriage honored and highly esteemed in America, or is it the target of ridicule?

· Between 1990 and 1997, the marriage rate decreased nine percent. Between 1960 and 1997, the rate decreased 33 percent.

· In 1960, married couples made up almost three-quarters of all households. By 1998, married couples were just more than half of all households.

· The number of cohabiting couples increased from 439,000 in 1960 to 4.24 million in 1998—an almost tenfold increase.

· During the 1990s, the number of cohabiting households increased by almost 50 percent.

· Today, forty out of every one hundred first marriages end in divorce, compared to sixteen out of every one hundred first marriages in 1960.

· America has the highest divorce rate of Western nations.

· And now we are dealing with homosexual marriage.

3) Romans expressed an inordinate desire for luxury. Wealthy Romans lived a sumptuous lifestyle even by our own standards. Much of this wealth derived at the expense of others. In addition, the Romans were never satisfied.

· I think comment on this point is not necessary . . . simply look around at people all around you. There are imported luxury cars everywhere, mammoth sized SUV’s with gold trim, and people adorned with gold teeth, designer label clothes, and $150 sneakers.

4) Human life became cheap. The Roman Empire operated on the enslavement of others. Romans owned so many slaves that they lived in constant fear of a slave revolt. Slave revolts were not unknown. Roman abortion practices revealed disrespect for life as well. Physicians prescribed various medications to induce abortion. Rather than using abortants, many Romans took infants into the country leaving them to die by exposure, to be found by others or by wild animals. Quite often Romans found exposed infants and raised them as slaves or servants.

· According to The Planned Parenthood Federation of America the Total number of abortions from1973 to 1998 was 38,010,378.

· By way of comparison, America lost 407,316 brave men and women in World War II, 25,604 in Korea, and 58,168 in the Vietnam War.

· This disposal of 40,000,000 people is the equivalent of a September 11th tragedy occurring EVERY DAY for 32 years !

5) Roman society displayed overt sexual deviation and perversion. Homosexuality increased dramatically. Homosexuality always marks the decline of a civilization. Historians believe Nero "enjoyed" young boys. Nero enjoyed the stage and most Roman actors lived a gay lifestyle. Others were bisexual.

· During the 1860's and 70's European public administrators began noticing that some people were organizing their lives not around family, household, and reproduction but around various forms of sexual pleasure. This was probably a phenomenon made possible by the forces of capitalism, which tended to draw people off the land into cities away from their parishes and families and to reduce the importance of arranged marriage. Alarmed, officials began studying these populations, whom they characterized as sexual deviants and grouped according to the particular practices they engaged in. One such class of deviant came to be called "homosexuals."

· In December 1973, the homosexual movement achieved a major victory when pressure groups succeeded in forcing the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from its list of mental illnesses. This change eliminated one of the reasons employers so often fire non-heterosexuals and one of the reason judges so often awarded custody to heterosexual over homosexual parents.

· Through the early 1970s gay and lesbian communities pushed for “equal rights” (just like all the god’s America now have) laws, and they were successful in a few cities.

· By 1977 California even had its first openly gay elected official;

· In 2003, we have gay clergy in senior positions of authority in the Episcopal Church

· In 2003, the State of California and our neighbors to the north, Canada, have recognized “Civil Unions” of homosexual couples.

· In 2004, well.. you know...

6) Pornography and perversion in art were common. Romans demonstrated no modesty about exhibiting their sexual preferences. For many years only archaeologists entered Pompeii because its residents portrayed pornographic scenes on bedroom, dining room and outside walls of their homes.

· Beer commercials display two women ripping each other’s clothes off and mud wrestling on network television.

· Teenage girls are commonly dressed as provocatively as prostitutes.

· We have an epidemic of men being addicted to internet pornography, thus, rendering their moral authority in the home impotent.

· Lewd tattoos and body piercing are covering the bodies of today’s youth.

· Heterosexual, homosexual, and lesbian sex is publicly exposed in every sector of society (even the MTV Music video awards in Aug, 2003 sported Madonna French kissing Britney Spears. . . ask your children who these 2 characters are).

· Our youth are being taught that this behavior is normal and accepted.

· Self-respect and respect for the rights of others has diminished to the point of being almost non-existent in America

· Jesus warned against this in Mat 5:32

a. “But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, except in the case of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery”

· The Apostle Paul said this in 1Cr 6:18

a. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the bod; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

· The English word “fornication” used in both verses above is actually translated from the Greek word porneia, the word that is the basis for our word PORNOGRAPHY.

a. According to the Strong’s Concordance, porneia means

i. Illicit sexual intercourse
1. Adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
2. Sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
3. Sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12 2)


7) Drunkenness became common. By Christ's time drunkenness was quite common. At one time Romans considered drunkenness illegal.

· Is drunkenness common today in America? Have you watched a professional sporting event lately? See the parallel? Booze is the drug of choice in America.

Government by personality rather than law led Rome into cultic practices. Prior to 44 B.C., Rome enjoyed a republican form of government. The Senate controlled the government's legislative and financial functions. The Senate appointed Emperors during times of national emergencies. These positions were always temporary until Julius Caesar! After Caesar’s rule in 44 B.C., Emperors became a permanent fixture. The Senate ruled by law, the Caesars by personality. Most Romans didn't care! As long as the government continued the dole and the games no one cared.

9) Rome placated the masses by paternalism. Large landowners eventually swallowed up small farms. Large farms proved more efficient and Rome needed food for its citizenry and 6 million slaves. The dispossessed farmers moved into the cities. Once there, they found no work. Violent gangs roamed the streets, crime rose and violence flared. The government provided rations and the circus to occupy them, placate them and entertain them. Not only could you find evidence of moral and social decline, but Rome faced political problems, too.

--------------------------

At the same time that all this is taking place in America, there is also a turning tide in some sectors. The pendulum always swings back the other way. There is evidence that a portion of today's youth are fed up with the failed policies of their parents' generation. They are returning to true "family values" and seeking God. It is very refreshing to see this as I have had the pleasure of meeting some kids with these ideals. They are inspiring and the only real hope for our nation's future.

And then we have "The Passion of the Christ". I don't know that I have ever witnessed a phenomenon such as this in my life. Jesus Christ is in the forefront of water cooler conversation everywhere. People who have never been to church are opening to the Bible to see if that is how the story really went. Some who have been saved are coming back to their first love, realizing that they have been seduced by the ways of the world, and they are wanting to live for God. I am seeing this happen in the lives of people I know personally as well. Some people's hearts are being touched in a way they have never experienced. I am excited to see what fruit will come from this project in the long run.

There are really two kinds of reactions to these statements; those who get it and those who don't get it.

For those who DO get it, you will heartily agree with most of what has been written here. You see clearly what is happening. The writing is on the wall and it couldn't be any more obvious to you.

For those who don't get it, you will most likely vehemently oppose the facts, dismissing them as irrelevant, outdated ideals, which is exactly what I expect. In fact, you have no other way to respond. Having been in this camp from my teen years through the age of 24, I understand this reaction and empathize with it.

Is this an overly simplistic analysis? Granted, there are other forces that come into play. I do not intend to stereotype any individuals or groups of people. But there is a growing chasm between the red and blue states in our once great nation.

The frog sleeps while the kettle continues to boil. Its getting awfully hot in there...

Mayor

[prism68]

Originally Posted by mayor

...
The frog sleeps while the kettle continues to boil. Its getting awfully hot in there...

Mayor

Very well said, all of it... and profound.
I of course 'get it' though

[hrdlife1]

I don't get it but I would like to have some of whatever it is you're smokin mayor LOL! that was pretty deep.

[bwsmom]

Wow! Awesome Mayor!! Thanks for that!

[mayor]

Originally Posted by hrdlife1

I don't get it but I would like to have some of whatever it is you're smokin mayor LOL! that was pretty deep.

LOL! That was the "old" Mayor that used to do that. Yup, killed a few brain cells in my day. Does it show? ;-)

Mayor

[Pipanella]

I agree with most of what you said.

[Rockabillie]

Originally Posted by mayor

· Not only is the “I AM” God of the Judeo-Christian tradition worshiped, but the gods of buddism, hinduism, & islam are given “equal rights”

Sorry buddy, you lost me when you said equality is bad.
I didn't know there were Americans who are lobbying AGAINST equality. Scary.

Don't think I'd ever believe anything someone who thinks equality is bad says.

Equality is the cornership of Democracy, of America, of everything our forefathers fought for. Equality is the aim of millions of people elsewhere in the world who give their lives to try to bring "American-style" equality to their country.

Throw out equality and you thorow out any hope.

[Reneek]

I just think the world would be better off if everyone stopped worrying about what's going on in everybody else's bedroom. I think if they focused on their own bedrooms, they could resolve some of their own problems.

[pandybat]

Originally Posted by Reneek

I just think the world would be better off if everyone stopped worrying about what's going on in everybody else's bedroom. I think if they focused on their own bedrooms, they could resolve some of their own problems.

Well said.....too many times, people are worried about what everyone else is doing instead of worrying about their own problems and hangups.

I am not for a cookie-cutter society where we all have to love the same God, love the same race, love the same gender, drive the same car and wear the same clothes. America is the boiling pot of diversity. It's what makes this country great. Some people focus a little too much on the people that are different from them and blow those differences out of proportion.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by pandybat

Well said.....too many times, people are worried about what everyone else is doing instead of worrying about their own problems and hangups.

I am not for a cookie-cutter society where we all have to love the same God, love the same race, love the same gender, drive the same car and wear the same clothes. America is the boiling pot of diversity. It's what makes this country great. Some people focus a little too much on the people that are different from them and blow those differences out of proportion.

There is a difference between 'difference' and 'depravity'.

[blueaguave]

Originally Posted by mayor

· Not only is the “I AM” God of the Judeo-Christian tradition worshiped, but the gods of buddism, hinduism, & islam are given “equal rights” with the Almighty.
Mayor

many Orthodox Jews and Muslims would argue that Christianity worships three Gods, due to the concept of the Trinity, and that they are the true monotheistic descendants of Abraham (not saying I necessarily agree with them, but I have seen this criticism of Christianity in many Orthodox Jewish and Muslim writings)

[pandybat]

Originally Posted by prism68

There is a difference between 'difference' and 'depravity'.

Either way, it is still someone worrying about other peoples problems and sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong.

Depravity involves morals. Whose morals? President Bush's morals?? In case you haven't noticed, he's trying to join church and state. His church, his beliefs, his faith influences his morals. I do not attend his church. I do not have the same morals as he does. And I don't think he needs to make moral judgements upon people and change the laws accordingly to suit his morals.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by pandybat

Either way, it is still someone worrying about other peoples problems and sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong.

Depravity involves morals. Whose morals? President Bush's morals?? In case you haven't noticed, he's trying to join church and state. His church, his beliefs, his faith influences his morals. I do not attend his church. I do not have the same morals as he does. And I don't think he needs to make moral judgements upon people and change the laws accordingly to suit his morals.

Omigoodness that is about the most illogical, double-standard thing I have heard yet.

1. My 'nose' belongs anywhere I believe OTHER peoples rights are affecting my children and my lifestyle.

2. Morality is a real thing, no matter how much the Liberals wish it was just some abstract concept- it matters in real life. Most Americans agree on some basic moral concepts. The elite media and their Liberal groupies are out of touch with normal people.

3. As for joining church and state- for one thing that whole thing is misunderstood and wrongly preached. The way Libs define church/state separation and the way the Constitution defines it are two entirely different things.
See that's the rub- in YOUR eyes, Kerry is a hero because he DOES keep his Catholic views separate from his political views. That is INSANE to me! How can you agree that abortion is wrong while sitting in church, then turn around and vote for it in public!? What kind of faith only exists when it is convenient?!

4. George Bush's morals make him a man of conviction and dignity, something this country SORELY lacked in Clinton. EVERY single person in this world acts out of their belief system; we all make choices and decisions everyday based on that internal operation set. Why should the President be any different? We elected him based on who he is- that faith is part of who he is, period.
Clinton certainly changed enough laws to suit HIS morals (or I should say lack thereof, just as Kerry would if given the chance)

[pandybat]

Originally Posted by prism68

Omigoodness that is about the most illogical, double-standard thing I have heard yet.

1. My 'nose' belongs anywhere I believe OTHER peoples rights are affecting my children and my lifestyle.

2. Morality is a real thing, no matter how much the Liberals wish it was just some abstract concept- it matters in real life. Most Americans agree on some basic moral concepts. The elite media and their Liberal groupies are out of touch with normal people.

3. As for joining church and state- for one thing that whole thing is misunderstood and wrongly preached. The way Libs define church/state separation and the way the Constitution defines it are two entirely different things.
See that's the rub- in YOUR eyes, Kerry is a hero because he DOES keep his Catholic views separate from his political views. That is INSANE to me! How can you agree that abortion is wrong while sitting in church, then turn around and vote for it in public!? What kind of faith only exists when it is convenient?!

4. George Bush's morals make him a man of conviction and dignity, something this country SORELY lacked in Clinton. EVERY single person in this world acts out of their belief system; we all make choices and decisions everyday based on that internal operation set. Why should the President be any different? We elected him based on who he is- that faith is part of who he is, period.
Clinton certainly changed enough laws to suit HIS morals (or I should say lack thereof, just as Kerry would if given the chance)

Are you serious??

We shouldn't legislate morality. When you do that, you are imposing your morals and values upon others. You are also discrediting others values and mandating conduct on others whether they like it or not. You are telling people how they should act and what they should do based upon how you want them to be and what you think the Bible says. The government should remain neutral on issues that affect peoples values and morals. Otherwise, where is our freedom?

[blueaguave]

Originally Posted by pandybat

Are you serious??

We shouldn't legislate morality. When you do that, you are imposing your morals and values upon others. You are also discrediting others values and mandating conduct on others whether they like it or not. You are telling people how they should act and what they should do based upon how you want them to be and what you think the Bible says. The government should remain neutral on issues that affect peoples values and morals. Otherwise, where is our freedom?

I used to be more of a libertarian, but after reading books by Rabbis Schneerson and Boteach, and excerpts of Kaballah, I realize that sometimes the so-called alternative lifestyles are breaking down the marriage/family...like I stated in my other post ("conflicted feelings"), I don't care if gays live together and form civil contracts/unions, but why are they trying to redefine marriage. Enough is enough! Bush's defense of marriage is simply self-defense..even Howard Dean said let them have the civil contract, leave marriage out of it (Dean and Bush both had clear-cut positions, not sure what Kerry thinks at this point in time)..
Anyway, on a more personal note, due to these teachings and some other personal reflections/prayer, I am going to stop dating around and within a year I expect to be married and maybe have kids within a year after that...you heard it hear first, mark this day on your calendars cuz pretty soon there'll be blueaguave Jr or blueaguavettes in this world! (this is not a joke dudes!)..stay tuned!