"Another useless woman"

[bwsmom]

Let me say at the outset that I am loathed to get into the whole abortion issue because people are even more set in their views about it than they are about Iraq. That being said, what I heard about (and subsequently read) today made me hopping mad, and I believe people on both sides of the issue will find this speech deplorable.

Last Saturday night, there was a "celebration of abortion" here in Portland Metro with the two main speakers being the wife of Oregon's current governor (Mary Oberst - she still uses her maiden name), and a best-selling author by the name of Ursula LeGuin. It is LeGuin's remarks that I find so utterly offensive. While Mrs. Oberst was lamenting that "....in a country without choice, a young woman's dreams can die very quickly", Ms. LeGuin went on to (imho) trash the name of every single mother in existence: "If she hadn't disobeyed the law and had the abortion...she never would have went to college or met her husband as the two were sailing on a ship for England as Fulbright scholars. 'I would have been an unwed mother with a 3-year-old in California', she said, most likely living off her parents and 'unmarriageable. Another useless woman.'"

Now, I'm perfectly willing to admit that when a young woman gets pregnant unexpectedly, it can certainly rearrange her life plan. However, not only do I know many women who became pregnant in high school and went on to fulfill "their dreams", I also know several single mothers who've never given a thought to being "unmarriageable" (nor have the guys they've dated and, in some cases, become engaged to) and certainly, never considered themselves (nor were considered) "another useless woman".

These women, (again imho), have done their cause a disservice. In the talk radio program where I intially learned of this "celebration" speech, I heard an equal number of outraged women and men calling up to say what a pathetic statement it was, including folks who believe in a woman's right to choose!

I'd like to hear from folks on both sides of the abortion issue on this one... does this woman's statement get you as angry as it does me? Do you think single mothers deserve to be called "useless women"? Does it offend you at all that this statement was made in "celebration" of abortion, and/or that it was made by a woman? (Personally, I think the only "useless woman" was the one who made the statement, but that's just me... while I certainly have my views on abortion, I don't believe that women who have children or those who abort them are "useless"). So let's hear it! What are your thoughts on this?

[pandybat]

I won't get into the whole abortion issue again on this board, but I don't think there is a such thing as a "useless woman", pregnant or not. Most men, in this day and age, know how important women are and the role they play in the lives of everyone they touch. I am offended at that lady's remarks about there even being a "useless woman" in existence.

[CagedTroll]

Why does it seem like something's being taken out of context?

LeGuin's a literary legend. I mean, like..., "LEGEND!" legend. And she's not known for making "brief statements". Once she starts talking she goes on for quite a while, which is why I think something here is out of context.

She's not soundbite friendly, and has written volumes just about so-called women's issues, never mind whatnot else!

I could be offended, but I'd have to put what she said into the context of [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]. (Notice how that says "SHORT Bibliography"? )

[bwsmom]

Originally Posted by CagedTroll

Why does it seem like something's being taken out of context?

LeGuin's a literary legend. I mean, like..., "LEGEND!" legend. And she's not known for making "brief statements". Once she starts talking she goes on for quite a while, which is why I think something here is out of context.

She's not soundbite friendly, and has written volumes just about so-called women's issues, never mind whatnot else!

I could be offended, but I'd have to put what she said into the context of [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]. (Notice how that says "SHORT Bibliography"? )

Oh, I've no doubt she said more.... and since our local paper is not known for being kind to conservatives, printing a statement such as the one above makes me wonder if she said things that were even more offensive!

[CagedTroll]

Originally Posted by bwsmom

<snip> makes me wonder if she said things that were even more offensive!

Well, [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]...!

She was probably speaking from her chapter in this book, which looks to be (her chapter, that is) about six pages long. Since she's living in Oregon, is a literary LEGEND (her books rank right up there with "Lord of the Rings" Tolkien, btw...) and lives in Oregon (I believe), I'd guess you can find it in your local library.

[bwsmom]

Originally Posted by CagedTroll

Well, [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]...!

She was probably speaking from her chapter in this book, which looks to be (her chapter, that is) about six pages long. Since she's living in Oregon, is a literary LEGEND (her books rank right up there with "Lord of the Rings" Tolkien, btw...) and lives in Oregon (I believe), I'd guess you can find it in your local library.

Quite frankly, I'm not the least bit interested in anything else this woman has to say. Her comment is a slap in the face to single mothers everywhere, not to mention a reflection on her view of herself, since she obviously didn't believe she could have any kind of life whatsoever (though she's smart enough to be a Fulbright scholar?), if she had carried that child to term!

[CagedTroll]

So, a comment that's obviously out-of-context, you've made up your mind about everything else the woman might have to say? And she's obviously said a lot... But all the evidence you need is one out-of-context comment? Which you're abreviating..., just noticed that.

LeGuin's Definition of a "Useless Woman": I would have been an unwed mother with a 3-year-old in California', she said, most likely living off her parents and 'unmarriageable'.

It's not just being an unwed mother. You're absolutely correct though, this line is a reflection on herself, what she would have become versus what she became though all the events of her life. Wife since '53, mother to three, grandmother to three, renowned author, etc... She knows if she'd had that first child she would have given up, sponged off her parents, and never accomplished anything anything else (like the three children she had).

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now] might be of interest (not now, but as you get older): In this short essay on the status of post-menopausal women, Le Guin examines the special status of older, experienced women who have lived through the trials and tribulations of the advent of sexuality, childbearing, and the end of the reproductive period. The author speaks to the special knowledge and wisdom acquired through these experiences and finally suggests that the most telling and viable representative of the human race on earth is the crone, who has known so much of what it means to be human.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by CagedTroll

...She knows if she'd had that first child she would have given up, sponged off her parents, and never accomplished anything anything else ...

Can't help but wonder how she knows that?
I was an unwed mother at 17, dropped out of high school to work, and definitely rearranged my life. Funny thing happened on the way to my uselessness though...

Got into college, graduated with a 4.0 and now have a M.Ed. with a specialization in Behavior Disorders. Got married 14 yrs. ago, husband formally adopted my son and we had a daughter together. We are still happily together, btw.

At 18, my son has his own business, two years of college under his belt (joint enrollment) and will graduate this Spring an honor student with dual vocational and college-prep seals. In addition, he has worked part-time throughout high school to maintain his car and insurance, etc..

My point is:
There IS no context for referring to a woman as 'useless' and no one knows what is in store for a life.

Additionally,I have a problem with a 'celebration' of abortion. Surely they were celebrating their choice and not the actual event; but, at any rate, there is nothing pleasant about abortion no matter which side you are on.

[doglover22]

I'll admit that I have never heard of this woman so, of course, I have no idea what else she may have said or written in the past. I do think that it is uncalled for to call any person (male or female, with our without children, married or unmarried) usless.

I will admit that the whole idea of a celebration of abortion turns my stomach.

[pandybat]

I think that maybe what CT is trying to say is that LeGuin would consider *herself* a useless woman, not all women in general. I could be wrong about that though. Clarification, CT?

[bwsmom]

Originally Posted by pandybat

I think that maybe what CT is trying to say is that LeGuin would consider *herself* a useless woman, not all women in general. I could be wrong about that though. Clarification, CT?

One thing that has been gnawing at me about this (okay, well, one of many!)... she's an author - she couldn't stay home with the kid and write her books?!?! Isn't that what many authors do, and isn't that what sets some folks on the road to writing in the first place?? As I said before, if she is smart enough to become a Fulbright scholar, surely she could have done something with her life despite being an unwed (not "unmarriageable") young mother. And pandy, while I agree with you in principle, the fact that she said "another useless woman", instead of "a useless woman" tells me she doesn't just view herself in that vein.

[CagedTroll]

Originally Posted by bwsmom

One thing that has been gnawing at me about this (okay, well, one of many!)... she's an author - she couldn't stay home with the kid and write her books?!?!

She wasn't an author or Fulbright scholar in 1950. Try to put what she says in the context of that time.

Prism, everything you've accomplished is remarkable for single-mother to pull off nowadays, you are to be commended. In 1950 it would have been nearly impossible.

I think it's possible LeGuin was making just as much of a comment about how women were viewed in the 1950s by society in general, as well as how she would have viewed herself. ([i]Answers Sandy's question, maybe?)

Btw, Bwsmom, LeGuin stayed at home and raised all three kids while writing. Also took her husband's last name.

[prism68]

Originally Posted by CagedTroll

Prism, everything you've accomplished is remarkable for single-mother to pull off nowadays, you are to be commended. In 1950 it would have been nearly impossible.

CT, I agree things would have been much more difficult in the 50's. I really wasn't putting the time frame together in my head.

Still take issue with the "another useless woman"... But I see your point

[bwsmom]

Originally Posted by CagedTroll

She wasn't an author or Fulbright scholar in 1950. Try to put what she says in the context of that time....

I think it's possible LeGuin was making just as much of a comment about how women were viewed in the 1950s by society in general, as well as how she would have viewed herself. (Answers Sandy's question, maybe?)

Btw, Bwsmom, LeGuin stayed at home and raised all three kids while writing.

There weren't any women writing books in the 50's??? Sure must've been a lot of drag queen authors then!

Interesting that you would say "[she] stayed at home and raised all three kids while writing".... she couldn't have done that with the first one? In fact, if her own words held true, she would have had free room & board (and probably on-demand babysitting), courtesy of her parents, so there should have been even less obstacles for her to pursue her "dream" of writing! I just don't buy that someone who's as smart as she's touted to be could say her whole "useful" existence would have been over had she carried her first child to term! Does she think having a baby out of wedlock somehow drains a woman of all her active brain cells? Does she believe that a woman can only be truly successful/fulfilled if she has the kids after she has the ring on her finger and the degree on the wall, with a six-figure income and a three-car garage with a Mercedes in each space? What about all the stay-at-home moms who homeschool their children, coach soccer and ponytail softball, are the troop leaders for Girl Scouts and/or the den leaders for Boy Scouts?

This woman may be a literary giant, but her statement as quoted above makes her appear very, VERY small in my eyes.

And btw, on that "out of context" business... this was the line that immediately followed the "useless woman" statement:

That means her three wanted children would never have been born, Le Guin said, choking up. "I can't bear the thought."

Isn't that nice... her three wanted children.... guess the first one was just practice for the ones she might want in the future? One wonders how endeared she would be to the first one, had she gotten to know him/her, since she's obviously so attached to the "wanted" three...

[CagedTroll]

Would you mind just typing in the whole article...? It would probably save time in the long run. Obviously "wanted" wasn't a word she was using. Was this an interview or a speech, or what?

Also, are you trying to understand the woman's entire belief system based on just two words? Honestly? And judge her entire life based on those two words plus one decision she made over fifty years ago???