Bush Would Give Illegal Workers Broad New Rights

[pandybat]

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Bush Would Give Illegal Workers Broad New Rights
By ELISABETH BUMILLER

Published: January 7, 2004


WASHINGTON, Jan. 6 — President Bush will propose a sweeping overhaul of the nation's immigration laws on Wednesday that could give legal status to millions of undocumented workers in the United States, senior administration officials said Tuesday night.
<snip>
Administration officials acknowledge that the wait for a green card could take up to six years or longer, meaning that some guest workers who apply for green cards but do not receive them before their guest worker status expires would face the prospect of being forced to leave the United States. In that case, critics of the proposal said Tuesday night, workers would be better off remaining illegal and staying indefinitely in the United States, rather than revealing themselves to immigration officials when they sign up for a program that may, these critics assert, lead to their deportation.
"They're asking people to sign up for a program that is more likely to ensure their departure than ensure their permanent residency," said Cecilia Muñoz, a vice president of the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy organization.

<read the rest at the link above>

I've said all along that we might as well make Mexico a state and save ourselves the hassles. Looks like it might not make a difference now. This sucks! All it's going to do is make it an even bigger incentive for more immigrants to sneak across our borders.

The president's proposals were designed to appeal to Hispanic groups, a constituency that the White House is focusing on as Mr. Bush seeks re-election this year.

How many more groups will he accomodate in order to win votes? This smells fishy!

[Jwelch111]

My DH, who votes for Democratic candidates but has considered LaRouche in the past, talks weekly about the immigrant problem. We disagree on this, and I tell him: "Think of your Irish ancestors!"

MO: Short-sighted pandering by The Bush Administration for nebulous votes, that may or may not be forthcoming by this action.

Bush will be making his announcement this afternoon, 2:30 p.m.ish (EST)(not exact on time; C-Span will carry).

[angusmcgee]

Rudy Giulianni had a great point I hadn't thought of on this subject.

"These folks are going to come in and look for work whether we do this or not. The ones that do this aren't a threat at all to the U.S.. Why not let them come in legally, work, and then concentrate our law enforcement issues on the ones that would be a threat?"

Sounds good to me.

You folks are too conspiratorial. Not EVERYTHING is about pandering.

Some is, mind you..

[pandybat]

I just don't think its going to work because of this statement:

Administration officials acknowledge that the wait for a green card could take up to six years or longer, meaning that some guest workers who apply for green cards but do not receive them before their guest worker status expires would face the prospect of being forced to leave the United States. In that case, critics of the proposal said Tuesday night, workers would be better off remaining illegal and staying indefinitely in the United States, rather than revealing themselves to immigration officials when they sign up for a program that may, these critics assert, lead to their deportation.
"They're asking people to sign up for a program that is more likely to ensure their departure than ensure their permanent residency," said Cecilia Muñoz, a vice president of the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy organization.

[mayor]

Sorry, but I am thoroughly and completely opposed to this policy. I am not sure what they are thinking beneath the surface, but I hope they have their heads screwed on tight. 8,000,000 illegals in our country as "guest workers"? Our borders are invisible. This is bad.

Mayor

[bradedit]

Oh geez, what are they thinking?? Just a few questiongs, who pays for health insurance since I am sure they are pretty low paying jobs and most of them do not have insurance. How about auto insurance for them to drive.

Do you know how many are injured, requiring long term health care? Do hospitals have to eat this or does the government pay for it?

[pandybat]

I just can't help thinking that this is going to be a plan that is going to backfire at some point and make alot of people mad. To be doing this for election reasons does not seem "compassionate" at all. All it's going to do is cause grief in the long run for the immigrants that gave up their secrecy in order for a better life. They are being duped.

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Democrats took issue with Bush's proposal, arguing that it does not go far enough. Bush's proposal, in the words of Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), "rewards business over immigrants" by giving companies a pool of cheap labor while failing to put undocumented workers on a path toward permanent legal residency or citizenship.

But a Democratic strategist, speaking on a not-for-attribution basis, described the proposal as "brilliant" politics that could help to refurbish Bush's "compassionate conservative" credentials, appeal to moderate swing voters and make it much harder for Democrats to win several states on their target list. "They've done a lot to try to put the general election away and at a minimum they may have taken Arizona and New Mexico off the table," the strategist said.

Kerry is right. Making them temporary labor with the possibility of being deported later is not looking out for the best interest of the Hispanics Bush is so bent on showing compassion for. It's all being done for the votes it might gain him in November. It's not what he can do for the Hispanics, it's what they can do for him to get more votes. These people broke the law by coming into the US illegally, yet as long as they or the businesses that now have the cheap labor will vote for him in November, he'll just overlook the fact that they broke the law. And after that, if they still get deported, that's ok. He doesn't need them anymore. This is so whacked. This is why I hate politics.

[Taxman]

Now don't have stroke, but I agree with you Mrs. Pandy. Pandering is despicable no matter if it's the Republican doing it to the Latinos or the Democrats doing it to African-Americans.

[pandybat]

Well, I'm glad you agree, TM. I would be surprised if anyone thought this was a great idea.

Why is it that decisions like this can be made without the approval of the American people? Why don't we get to vote on stuff like this anymore? There are so many initiatives coming out lately (immigrants, airport fingerprinting, etc). We never get the facts or the outlook of how things are going to go down until it's announced and practically in effect and by then it's too late to protest. It's like someone makes the decision and if everyone doesn't agree or wants more information about the future effects before it's passed, too bad.

[Taxman]

Originally Posted by pandybat

Well, I'm glad you agree, TM. I would be surprised if anyone thought this was a great idea.

Why is it that decisions like this can be made without the approval of the American people? Why don't we get to vote on stuff like this anymore? There are so many initiatives coming out lately (immigrants, airport fingerprinting, etc). We never get the facts or the outlook of how things are going to go down until it's announced and practically in effect and by then it's too late to protest. It's like someone makes the decision and if everyone doesn't agree or wants more information about the future effects before it's passed, too bad.

Like it or not, that's the way a representative democracy works. We don't vote on the issues, we vote for people whom we believe will vote a certain way. Just be glad we don't have a direct democracy. There would be no such thing as equal rights, women’s suffrage, ect.

[pandybat]

Originally Posted by Taxman

We don't vote on the issues, we vote for people whom we believe will vote a certain way.

Well, that sucks and I'm mad.....lol <crosses arms, holds breath and throws a hissy-fit>

In the end, we all pay, in one way or the other, for these ridiculous programs and I would prefer to have a vote about them instead of someone just doing it and not leaving us any choice but to pay for it. I'm telling ya, I am getting sick of living the way I do with no chance of it getting any better, while others reap the benefits of some wigged out idea that will in the end make them even more wealthy and help no one else. Some politicians are so out of touch with how the working class live, it's ridiculous. They have no more interest in helping poor people get ahead than they do scrubbing toilets.
The economy is up. YAY, that's great but for who? I still pay the same price for a gallon of milk and gas isn't going down.
Let's legalize all the immigrants. YAY, that's great but who is it going to benefit? They will still be hired over me because they will work for less money.
Let's invade Iraq. WHY? I want to see Osama in chains before I see Saddam ousted. Who's the bigger threat here?
It's freaking me out to think about what kind of state we all will be in in 10-15 years with the way things are going now. Especially with the Patriot Act now in place.
This trial and error in our countrys future is for the birds!....Let's let this guy make our decisions for us and if he screws everything up, we'll find a new guy in four years to clean it up, all the while he makes his own messes......What kind of thinking is that?! Why don't we all vote on all the issues and be heard instead of letting someone we HOPE will make the right decisions for us? Since when did it become common for a President to make a decision and our only defense was to protest it on the front lawn of some government building if we have a problem with his decision? I thought the President was supposed to be working for us? What happened to "of the people, by the people, for the people"?
Did I mention, I hate politics?..lol

That's my rant. I may be way off in my thinking here but that's how I see it. I'm also still learning how all this works. I think I'm on the verge of becoming a radical. Radical what, who knows? LOL

Thank you for the lesson, Mr. Taxman!

[Jwelch111]

Pandybat: great rant...

Become a radical PROGRESSIVE...

[Twinplets]

Originally Posted by pandybat

The economy is up. YAY, that's great but for who? I still pay the same price for a gallon of milk and gas isn't going down.

I'm paying a lot more for milk, actually, and gas goes up and down so often I've lost track of when it was last at this price.

Originally Posted by bradedit

Oh geez, what are they thinking?? Just a few questiongs, who pays for health insurance since I am sure they are pretty low paying jobs and most of them do not have insurance. How about auto insurance for them to drive.
Do you know how many are injured, requiring long term health care? Do hospitals have to eat this or does the government pay for it?

If they're low paying jobs without insurance, then we'd have the same problem whether the jobs are held by illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, or US citizens, except that maybe for citizens they're more likely to have self-pay insurance or else be covered by a spouse with a better job.

Maybe we should start levying higher fines on businesses who hire illegal immigrants, to a level where they'd actually think twice about getting the "cheaper labor".

And another opinion I'm sure will be unpopular - not letting the children of illegal immigrants get a free education in our public schools. Yes, I do think it's important for kids to get an education, but with all the talk about overcrowded schools, lack of funding, etc, this might be a way to solve some of the problems. Also, if parents knew their kids wouldn't be able to go to school, it might encourage some of them to try going through legal channels instead of comeing illegally.

I'm not necessarily saying we should do these things, but that they might be worth giving some thought to, and in doing so come up with better solutions.

[crazytimes]

Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, right?

If not then go for it. Imagine all the tax dollars we could collect!

Anyways, I mean no offense, but if it weren't for illegals who would work so many of those jobs that many of us would not want to take - McDonalds, cleaning companies, dishwashers, etc.

I believe illegal immigrants are a vital part of this economy.

[Taxman]

Pandy: Be careful what you wish for. Direct democracy is anarchy’s kissing cousin...

crazytimes: About the taxes, that's not entirely true if they're simply using forged (or stolen) SSN, which is fairly common in my experience. In these cases they're at least paying SS/Medicare.