Atkins vs Ornish, or how I can make either one look good through selective quoting

[blueaguave]

Lets take Atkins vs Ornish, they've debated on TV and at medical schools many times, and they are regarded as the 2 "extremes", one is seen as fanatically anti-carb and the other as overly anti-fat. I could easily write an article that sounds like its "objectively" covering the debate, and make it sound "fair", while pushing either one on the public. First of all, virtually all diets start with an initial "strict" phase, and ramp up to a more "permissive" phase. In the case of Atkins, you severly limit carbs at the begin (even fruits), and after 2 weeks start adding back the healthier carbs. Similarly, Ornish severely limits fats, even the oil and fish. So the first trick you can pull is whether to chose the initial or lifetime maintenance phase of a diet. If I want to make Atkins look bad, I choose the initial phase of his diet, where can't eat fruits, which he clearly explains you are limiting for a short time. Or, I could choose his more balanced lifetime maintenance phase, and chose the strictest phase of Ornish, where even the hearty healthy fats, and make him look bad. And depending on the point of view being pushed, this is exactly whats done. I've seen it done both ways. No distinction is made on short term recommendations vs long term.
Another trick is which book to use. Both these authors have written numerous books, so again they're good examples. For instance, Dr Atkins Age Defying Diet is more about long term health, not weight loss, so he doesn't limit carbs as much. He looks better or worse, depending on which book I choose to represent him. Ornish has also written two different books, one thats virtually 0% fat, which he states is for people that ALREADY have heart disease, and one for the general public thats more lenient. So I can easily make him look like an extremist.
Also, I could ignore the authors additional information and warnings. For instance, Atkins states that under his theory, after you reduced the carbs to jumpstart your metabolism (which did work for me), when you start adding back carbs, he clearly emphasizes you to eat whole grains and fruits, and not just add back junk foods. Similarly, in recent editions of his books Ornish admits some fats are good, and advises taking fish oils. Depending on who I want to make look good or bad, I could leave
out the extra info.
so think for yourself and be wary, even if the author seems "balanced". There are many militant vegeterarians AND militiant high protein advocates pushing a one size fits all diet. Either one of these diets may or not be for you individually

[mama2calli]

Originally posted by blueaguave
so think for yourself and be wary, even if the author seems "balanced". There are many militant vegeterarians AND militiant high protein advocates pushing a one size fits all diet. Either one of these diets may or not be for you individually

LOL well you've heard my overly voiced opinion on the dieting subject many times...see your doctor first (in my case - see my reproductive endocrinologist!) to find out if you have any medical conditions or are on any meds which might interfere with dieting and/or metabolism...

Personally I'm more for controlled carbs than anything - stick with the good carbs and stay away from the bad carbs (pasta, rice, low fiber cereals, junk foods, soda, candy, desserts, candy, you get the idea). Try to keep your carb count around 100g a day (RDA is ridiculously high at 300g plus) "before" subtracting fiber carbs out.

Don't eat low/no fat processed foods, try to make things from scratch instead! These processed foods can be high in additives, preservatives and heaven knows what else toxic!!!!!

And a certain amount of good fats is needed every day in order for your body to survive and function properly...

Kath

[blueaguave]

also, neither one of these authors gives you carte blanch. Ornish says eat high carb, but he says more fruits and veggies rather than breads and pastas, and similarly Atkins says the ideal proteins and fats are fish, olive oils, and organic butter, not hydrogenated fats or hot dogs.
That is why virtually any diet is better than SAD(Standard American Diet). SAD has the worst kind of protein, to the extent it even contains protein, like hot dogs and Slim Jim, the worst kind of fat, like hydrogenated, and the worst kind of carbs, like sugar and refined flour. Virtually any alternative pratctioner, whether or not they agree HOW MUCH fats, carbs, and pros you should eat, will at least tell you to eat the better quality versions of each.

[blueaguave]

Originally posted by mama2calli


RDA is ridiculously high at 300g plus

that is clearly ludicrous, you can eat tons of veggies and most fruits and only reach 100g of carbs. the only way you can get past 200g carb is eating a lot of starches. The Food Pyramid Scam wants to encourage you to eat a huge quantity of refined grains and breads, which is equivalent to eating bowls of sugar all day. Even if you took the starchiest natural foods, like bananas and potatoes, they still have a lot of fiber you would feel full fast. Reaching 300mg virtually MANDATES you to eat junk carbs