Bill Mahor calls the US Cowards- Says Terrorists are brave!!!

[mayfly]

Sept. 19, 2001, 9:00AM

Bill Maher calls U.S. cowardly; FedEx pulls ads from show
By MIKE McDANIEL
Copyright 2001 Houston Chronicle TV Editor


Federal Express ordered its ads removed from the ABC late-night series Politically Incorrect on Tuesday after the show's host referred to recent U.S. military actions as "cowardly."

After receiving complaints from around the country, including Houston, Federal Express reviewed Monday's edition of the show and decided to act, company spokesperson Carla Richards said.

Richards said she did not know how many complaints the company received, but that they were of sufficient quantity to merit the actions the company took.

"The (30-second) ad that runs during that show has been pulled for the indefinite future," Richards said.

Dinesh D'Souza, a panelist on Monday's show, quibbled with a reference made by President George W. Bush that the suicide bombers were cowards, noting that they gave up their lives for whatever may be their cause.

"These are warriors," D'Souza said, "and we have to realize that the principles of our way of life are in conflict with people in the world."

"We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away," said Bill Maher, the host of Politically Incorrect. "That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly."

"I was just appalled," said Dan Patrick, general manager of KSEV (700 AM) and host of a radio talk show. "When you call our men in the (armed forces) cowards and our military policy cowardly, and when you call these hijackers `warriors,' that should not be tolerated."

Patrick urged listeners to call KTRK and urge the station to stop carrying the "irresponsible" program. Other hosts of KSEV talk shows made the same request.

"The First Amendment gives us the freedom of speech, but it does not guarantee anyone a TV show or a TV camera or a radio show, for that matter," Patrick said. "If Bill Maher believes that Americans are cowards and hijackers are warriors, let him go out on the street corner and shout that. But Disney does not have to give him a TV show and Channel 13 does not have to air that show."

KTRK said it received a number of calls -- "in the low hundreds," the station said. The station said it receives triple that amount when it pre-empts a soap opera. It had no further comment.

ABC issued a statement saying, in part, that Politically Incorrect "celebrates freedom of speech and encourages the animated exchange of ideas and opinions. Understandably, this forum can oftentimes arouse intense emotions, especially during such a sensitive time.

"While we remain sensitive to the current climate following last week's tragedy, and continue to do our part to help viewers cope with unfolding events, we have an obligation to offer a forum for the expression of our nation's diverse opinions."

[Margaritaville]

I aplogize for this in advance...but who the h e l l does he think he is?? I agree in freedom of speech, but this man it a moron. He has no idea what a idiot he really is. The military protects this country and gives HIM the freedom of speech he has so stupidly used this week.

My DH as some of you know is in the gulf, somewhere...doing HIS job!! I don't call him a coward I call him a hero, and I am very proud of him, and I am scared that something will happen to him or he won't be home in January. I can't put into words what I think about Bill, well, I could but the Mayor wouldn't allow it. It sicken's my heart that american's like him have to show thier ignorance....I hope that ABC will yank him right off the air.

He also had Sandra Bernhardt on that show and that dippity doo said that she thought(of course this is before the incedent on Tuesday) that they should give the money that they give the military to the homeless people in L.A., and that we shouldn't use it to play "war games", well, it's those war games that save our butt's in times like these.

I know I sound like I am sideing because of my military way of life, but we have to remember it's military past and present that has allowed us this way of life.

I still pray for NY, and I pray for my DH and his fleet out there so proudly doing their job for us, for our life, for our FREEDOM of Speech!!!!

Off soap box.....

[tschmitt]

what a FRIEKING MORON! I can't believe you'd call killers warriors - they're not warriors, they're sickos who only seek to maliciously take parents away from their children! Did anyone else read the story about the two babies who (so far) have been born to the widows! Oh my gosh - I can't believe he'd be so stupid - hope his show gets cancelled and he gets blacklisted!

I didn't normally watch his show before - but you can bet I'll never do it now!!

[blueaguave]

I've hated this ******* for years. He claims to be a libertarian but he's always spouting commie/lib propaganda, and he's not even funny, now he insults the people who defend his right to spew crap. He consistently gets his *** kicked in the ratings but yet the network idiots keep giving him a forum. (PS-the main reason I don't like him, he's not funny. I don't agree politically with Dennis Miller, but he's a funny guy and he picks on everyone equally, and he would never say somehting that stupid)

[mum23]

Bill Maher is a liberal jerk and I can't stand him!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a ridiculous thing to say!

[jmanullang]

Originally posted by tschmitt
I can't believe you'd call killers warriors - they're not warriors, they're sickos who only seek to maliciously take parents away from their children!

I can't stand Bill Maher either--don't think he's funny--but I think it's important to understand one simple thing about his statement. He is calling the hijackers "warriors," but he is not calling them "heroes." There's a huge difference.

The dictionary definition of "warrior" is basically "someone who engages in battle." This in no way implies that what the warrior is fighting for is honorable. For me, the word "warrior" definitely has a "heroic" connotation, but that is incorrect. I agree completely that the attackers were/are "sickos."

What Bill Maher is responding to in making these statements is how Bush has consistently referred to the attackers as "cowards." Maher is stating very unclearly that they are not cowardly at all--they took their own lives. As he said, "Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly."

I have family in the military too, so I personally would be offended for someone to say our military is full of cowards. But this is Maher's clarification: "In no way was I intending to say, nor have I ever thought, that the men and women who defend our nation in uniform are anything but courageous and valiant, and I offer my apologies to anyone who took it wrong," Maher said in a statement. "My criticism was meant for politicians who, fearing public reaction, have not allowed our military to do the job they are obviously ready, willing and able to do and who now will, I'm certain, as they always have, get it done."

I know this may seem as though I'm defending him, but I'm not a fan and I don't agree with much of what he's said in the past. However, in this case, I think it's important that if we ream him for what he says that we understand what it is he's saying. I have to say, I do agree with one statement he's made in trying to clarify this issue: "I understand people have a lot of anger and hate," he said. "They should direct it toward the terrorists and not me. It's amazing that I should have to point out I find [the attacks] despicably evil."

[bigredmonster]

We are all thinking exactly like smug, arrogant Americans here. I personally agree that the act of flying an airliner into a building full of innocent people is wrong, no matter what your ideology is.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that there are thousands of different ideologies in our world, from different cultural backgrounds that we probably can never totally understand since we didn't grow up in them from birth. We come from a cultural background that allows and even encourages free speech, belief and worship according to one's personal preferences, and many physical freedoms (such as unrestricted travel within the nation) that are not globally available. To some other cultures, those kinds of freedoms are incomprehensible. Not just strange, but so strange they can't even imagine having them as we do. We take for granted that a neighbor down the street may worship differently than our own family, and we (collectively ) are OK with that. They are still good people. We agree to disagree with our co-workers on political parties and platforms because that's the culture in which we were raised.

Now imagine that instead you (and I, and all of us in the DOD family) had been raised from birth in a culture that has only one acceptable form of worship: radical fundamentalism. Imagine that our fictional culture doesn't allow anyone to rant on a street corner about their differing beliefs, and will shoot on sight anyone who does. Imagine that all of us are taught from birth that whoever gives his/her life in defense of our (enforced) beliefs is instantly taken to heaven for a great spiritual reward. In that sense, someone of our fictional culture would be a hero and a brave martyr about whom we would sing songs of praise. (Does this sound like the general course of Jesus' life?) If we had truly been raised in this fictitious radical fundamentalism culture, we would be very much like the cultures that spawn terrorists, not like the freedom-lovers we now are. We did not create ourselves, our culture has done that.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that, throughout history, there have been cultures which teach their fighting forces that to give their lives in defense of the culture's beliefs is the noblest and bravest death one can hope for. Vikings, Celts, Romans, lots of fighting forces had that bra-very. They may have hated the wounds and mess of battle, but their hearts were true to their beliefs. Ideally, this is how American fighting forces feel as they are deployed. We hold dear the cause of freedom, and we are free to interpret "freedom" however we like. Maybe it's the freedom to lounge around on the weekend and grill food in our own backyard, maybe it's the freedom to take a demanding job and work long hours and gain lots of material wealth, maybe it's the freedom to devote lots of time to spiritual study and the work of furthering peace. But it's up to each person to define. Had we been born Vikings, we would have been taught that looting, plundering, and invading were our rights as a strong and vigorous culture. Other cultures whom we invaded would probably have resented, maybe hated us. But they would not have altered our beliefs about our rights, because those beliefs would have been instilled in us from day one.

So even though I may not agree with radical religious fundamentalism's cultural results, I have to respect that they, in their way, are brave enough to lay down their lives to show the extent of their beliefs. In that sense, they *were* brave warriors, and not cowards, just the way that my Celtic ancestors who fought hand-to-hand with primitive weapons, knowing many of them would be killed when they fought, were brave warriors. And in that sense, I can understand Bill Maher's comment. I would have to agree that's it's not as brave to drop bombs from a mile up and then fire one's afterburner - after all, you're not risking your own skin that way. But it is brave to take a bomber into an airspace that is unfriendly, knowing you might be shot down and captured. And it is brave to devote your life to defending your system of beliefs, when you're opposed by forces with lots of weapons, *regardless* if which beliefs you're defending.

For those of you who feel compelled to reply to my thoughts and tell me what a disgusting pro-terrorist rant this was, save yourself the time. I'm not pro-terrorist any more than the other posters. I am open-minded enough to realize that there's more than my way of life in the world, and that maybe my own beliefs don't make up the entire list of *right* beliefs. I hope that within all DOD'ers is the capacity to think in an open-minded way about the "foreigners" who are actually humans defending their only way of life. To them, we are foreigners with foreign attitudes. Actually, to many of them, many of us are godless infidels and no amount of arguing can change their minds. The more we close our minds to diversity, the more we are like that example. Be careful when you think of the terrorists as godless infidels, instead of people who choose to worship in a different way. The more humanity we mentally strip from them, the easier it will become for us to act just as inhumanely as the hijacking terrorists did, and eventually we will be no better, justifying the slaughter of uninvolved people simply because of different beliefs.

Let's not forget that we should be fighting against wrong actions, rather than wrong beliefs. To each of you who reads this entire message, I wish for you an ever-increasing understanding of humanity, as well as the capacity to truly enjoy the diversity of our little planet.

[KAZMAN]

Sorry but I will never watch again... Of course I only watched a few times and I changed the channel every time since I had enough of his views in 5 minutes..

[JADEEAGLE]

I am prepared to be crucified for expressing my view. I feel that Maher was right on target with his comment. These "terroists", while I denounce their actions, were true hereos of THEIR cause. They made the ultimate sacrifice to further their religious and political beliefs. Where is the Great United States any different? We have invaded Vietnam, Korea, and the Gulf to push our democratic way of life down the throats of people who didn''t live the American Way. While I am proud to live in this country, I am appalled by the "vigilante, cowboy" mentality propigated by our beloved leader, George W. "round up the Posse, Hoss" Bush.

[jmanullang]

bigredmonster and JADEEAGLE, well said.

Too bad that you're so on-target that many will think of you as just as radical and out-of-line as Bill Maher and others. Your messages are exactly what we need to hear to get through this difficult time that lies ahead in our country.

Thanks for contributing and speaking out.

[bassmount]

jmanullang bigredmonster and JADEEAGLE,

Explain what this "Cause" might have been to kill well over 6000 civilian innocent people. Even people of their own faith have called out for justice and have said that these COWARDLY TERRORISTS have commited sins against the fundamental teachings of Islam. Please see in detail what has been said by other Muslims below and please note that at least two of you need to get facts together, unless these are solely your opinions without factual basis, which if that is the case it is your right to feel and think what you want. I'm have to say that I do see some valid points in BigRed's statments, with the exception of the statement that this jerk (the show host, not you Big Red) said on b r a v e r y, this was not b r a v e r y, if they can be seen as brave, then how brave was it for these people to previously set bombs around the world and walk away to watch the carnage? How brave is it for their leader to allow someone like Sadam Hussain take over his country of birth and test chemical and bioligical weapons on his own people? They are no more brave than a gangbanger shooting someone in the back during a driveby. As for the other comments it is tripe, just plain tripe in my opinion, sorry. GOD BLESS AMERICA.... ROUND 'EM UP HOSS!

"I am a Muslim," he said. "I am an American. If the culprits are Muslim, they have twisted the teachings of Islam. Whoever performed, or is behind, the terrorist attacks in the United States of America does not represent Islam. God is not behind assassins." ~Muhammad Ali


``We are part of the same community. We have been exposed to the same danger. There were Muslims who were killed inside the World Trade Center. There were Muslim firefighters who died trying to save people. They are not fundamentalists. Fundamentals are the basics, the foundation,'' he said. ``The five pillars of Islam are to recognize God as supreme, to pray five times a day, to fast during the holy month of Ramadan, to give charity to the poor and to visit the holy city of Mecca. How do these fundamentals translate to terrorism? These are not fundamentalists. They are extremists.'' ~Hakeem Olajuwon


What Jihad Means

Reuters

CAIRO (Sept. 1 - Afghanistan's purist Islamic Taliban rulers have formally declared a ''jihad'' against the United States after U.S. threats of retaliation for last week's devastating attacks in New York and Washington.

Afghanistan, which hosts the top U.S. suspect, Saudi-born Osama bin Laden, could be a target in case of reprisal.

But what does ''jihad'' really mean?

WHAT JIHAD IS:

-- The Arabic word ''jihad'' is often translated as ''holy war,'' but a more accurate translation is ''holy struggle.'' Islamic scholars say the term ''holy war'' was actually coined in Europe during the Crusades to mean a war against the Muslims.

-- In a purely linguistic sense, the word ''jihad'' means struggling or striving. There are two different, unrelated words which mean war.

-- In a religious sense, as described by the Koran and teachings of the Prophet Mohammed, jihad means striving for the benefit of the community or the restraint of personal sins. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslim, or believer. Scholars say it primarily refers to efforts to improve oneself.

-- Jihad is a religious duty.

-- If jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents -- such as women, children, or invalids -- must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.

-- Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: ''This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad,'' which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.

-- In case military action appears necessary, not everyone can declare jihad. The religious military campaign has to be declared by a proper authority, advised by scholars, who say the religion and people are under threat and violence is imperative to defend them. The concept of ''just war'' is very important.

-- The concept of jihad has been hijacked by many political and religious groups over the ages in a bid to justify various forms of violence. In most cases, Islamic splinter groups invoked jihad to fight against the established Islamic order. Scholars says this misuse of jihad contradicts Islam.

-- Examples of sanctioned military jihad include the Muslims' defensive battles against the Crusaders in medieval times, and before that some responses by Muslims against Byzantine and Persian attacks during the period of the early Islamic conquests.

WHAT JIHAD IS NOT

-- Jihad is not a violent concept.

-- Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as ''people of the book'' who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.

-- Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.

-- Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications.

REUTERS Reut07:14 09-18-01

[dianemarie]

Wow! Thank you, Becky!! That was very informative.

[Margaritaville]

Originally posted by mayfly
Sept. 19, 2001, 9:00AM

"These are warriors," D'Souza said, "and we have to realize that the principles of our way of life are in conflict with people in the world."

"We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away," said Bill Maher, the host of Politically Incorrect. "That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly."

Yes these warriors...the terrorist who crashed the planes...no doubt, warriors for their cause...

WE have been the cowards...need I say more?? He is directly calling the military cowards. His quote says it all...Staying in the airplane when it hit's the building...it's not cowardly.

Now from the way I see it...he is intending what is quoted. And I have to say, I do have an open mind, I don't think that I am what was your exact words bigredmonster, Oh yeah...smug arrogant american...well; I totally disagree...I am acting like a proud american wife of a sailer. And I will stick with that for as long as I am alive.

And how did you turn this post into a post about their beliefs?? It's about how a so called american, made a bad comment. And if you will re-read my post...the ONLY person I called a HERO, in my eye's and my 5yo's eye's, and my 11yo's eye's is my DH.

I understand the diversity on this little planet...and I welcome it.

[jmanullang]

I don't think what the attackers did was right, and I don't think they represented their religion's teachings AT ALL, to anyone but the small group that shares their beliefs that all Americans deserved this.

Honestly, and I know this opens a whole new can of worms, this to me is like Christians murdering abortionists in God's name. They certainly don't represent all of Christianity with their actions. Even if I am against abortion, I do not praise them for killing someone else.

What (I think) bigredmonster was saying is that most of us Americans don't understand what the culture that raises these attackers is like. Most of us cannot comprehend a way of life outside of our own.

I traveled to Europe for the first time a few months ago. There were things there that I thought were SO weird: poor hygiene habits, rude crowd behavior, interesting table manners, etc. I know this doesn't compare to what we saw last week, but it did open my eyes a little bit to see that some of the things that are so unheard of here in the states are not at all unusual over there. Now, add to those silly little things a third-world country, being raised with completely different beliefs, and poverty like few of us can imagine, and maybe we can begin just a tiny bit to understand what life is like in some of the countries the attackers hailed from.

I don't think anyone here is less horrified than anyone else by what happened last week. I don't think anyone here agrees that what the attackers did was right, or supports their actions. Let's not confuse an attempt to understand a foreign culture for support of extreme radical beliefs.

[Ithaca89]

Phrases like "united," "support the president" and "support the military" have been endlessly tossed around for the last 10 days. I suggest we stop and think about what exactly we mean by those. If we're suggesting that we quietly go along with whatever the government wants to do about this situation, then the terrorists have already won.

It's been relatively easy to be "united" as a country since the bombings. Who could respond to the actual tragedy with anything but profound grief for the victims and for our way of life? But the hard part is coming. There is no clear answer to what to do next. And it is up to all of us to keep up with the situation and express our views, even if that makes you look "unsupportive" of the military or the president. Consider that doing exactly that would get you beheaded or buried alive in Afghanistan. It is also up to all of us to try to understand opposing viewpoints.

Bill Mahar was really just the first person to publically state, that maybe what we've been doing so far has been misguided- and that makes him look divisive. As far as his calling the military "cowards" goes, who makes the decisions about where the military strikes next? The individual people and fighting units? No! The president, the joint chiefs of staff and other leaders make those decisions. They are the people he is calling cowards. As far as the terrorists go, of course they are warriors - for their cause. I'll give them "brilliant" too. It takes a lot of brains and br***** to pull off what they did. Like our individual soldiers, they were brave. They had to be. Their movement is cowardly since their leaders haven't bothered to stand up and take credit for it or even to tell us what their problem is. I am repulsed by what they did but denying that smart, brave people are out there willing to die for their cause will only hurt us in the end.

Of course, people have the right to not watch Bill Mahar's show. Disney has the right to cancel it, but he still has the right to say what he said. Do we really want only the popular views expressed? There's another thread on this board about Jerry's Falwell's statements about abortionists, gays and other groups being partially responsible for the bombings. Well, like Bill Mahar, he had a right to say those things - even if many people are repulsed by them. However the rest of us have the right to withdraw support of his missions or hold politicians who associate with him accountable in the next election.

Whether you like these two guys or not, freedom of speech, the ability to criticize the goverment and the ability to express unpopular opinions are essential components of what is arguably the best system of government ever created!