It's about time...

[jeskibuff]

...I posted this. It's been sitting on my computer, subject to revisions here and there. I even had to repair the file after it got damaged on a diskette transferring from computer to computer. Anyway...for what it's worth...

This post promises to be a lengthy (and perhaps tedious) read, so for those of you who have a short attention span, I offer you this easy opportunity to "bail out": click on the following link and close this window. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

For the few of you remaining, keep in mind that the link is available at the top of this post. All you have to do is scroll up and you can make a hasty exit!

This concerns the post entitled "At least 39 dead in RI club fire". [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now] There's no doubt it was a horrible tragedy and the details were just beginning to unfold as the thread began. To me, it was apparent what was going to happen: before the smoke even cleared there would be finger-pointing galore in order to avoid the liability of what blossomed into almost 100 needless deaths. When a tragedy like this happens and the lawyers are licking their chops on the sidelines, for sure we have to blame someone. There were many factors that led to this catastrophe - the obvious being use of pyrotechnics in a facility that should have never allowed them. Until the facts came out, I expected the blame game to continue, with fingers pointed alternatively to the club owners, then back to the band. The conversation of the thread was involved in this topic at the time I joined in. Every one wanted to know how this needless loss of life happened.

I thought there was another aspect that deserved attention, especially when contemplating the Chicago nightclub disaster that occurred just 4 nights prior to this one. It was too late for the people in the night club, but not too late for the living to think about ways to minimize this deadly side effect where people trample each other. In my attempt to transition the conversation from the club owner/band blame game to this other aspect, I used some words that I admit could have been chosen better. I gave little thought to how severly this "shortcut" of words would be taken, therefore, I didn't pay much attention to them. The words were subsequently taken out of context and used to assault me, as if I had faulted these people for their own deaths.

One of the first assaults came from LuvMeTender in the form of a snide remark: "whoa.. you have it all figured out!". I considered the source (from conflicts on other subjects) and responded with my own retaliatory snide remark - tit for tat. Lately, my philosophy has been "Treat me rudely and expect that I'll treat you rudely, giving you a taste of your own medicine". Treat me (and others) with respect and I'll do the same for you. I will practically bend over backwards to be polite and accommodating.

Some time after posting my response to LuvMeTender, I checked on the thread only to find many more harsh responses about what I had written. It was then that I went back and read my first post, trying to see how it could have been so inflammatory. I posted an apology, stating that I could see how what I had written was taken the wrong way and that I probably could have worded it much better. At the time of that post, LuvMeTender had blood dripping from her fangs, thinking that I was finally "put in my place". She said as much: "You got a little wake-up call, didn't you?"

Well, my apology was totally discarded and rejected by Kat. Apparently to her, my words were "cast in stone" and I seemingly had no option but public execution as my punishment for this horrendous "crime". I was astonished that someone could be so demanding, especially someone whose capacity as a moderator should demand that they have the understanding that written words are seldom perfect and thus have the vulnerability of being misinterpreted by others. Sometimes for instance, if you forget to insert a simple "smiley face" or "wink" , your post can take on a whole different meaning. What you had written with intent to make someone laugh actually resulting in hurting them or angering them! I could be wrong...after all, in that thread it apparently seems that many people have never personally experienced being misunderstood before. Maybe I'm the only one??

This incident bothered me, especially since I have seen such savage behavior occur before and was able to stop it. Click on the link below to read a conversation thread I was involved in back in January. It started when over 100 identical posts hit the message board on another web site. If you check out the link, be patient. The site has been ridiculously slow lately. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

Notice the strong and immediate condemnation that the person received for "making" these posts. It started out as "that's a lot of rage" and took just minutes to escalate into "Let's ban him from this forum". Compare that to the attitudes in the 'At least 39 dead in RI club fire' thread - the responses were the same: these people were out for blood! Then look who comes along to interpret things a little differently - me, in both cases. There was a huge swing in attitude on the other thread followed by an immediate apology, but not in the DOD "fire" thread. I guess the rules are different when you're defending yourself and you're up against a pair of vampire moderators, huh? Here's a follow up to that thread, where the "offender" apologizes. Check out my response to his apology. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

That thread is a good example of the way that I feel people should be treated - they should be given the benefit of the doubt with the understanding that mistakes happen, whether those mistakes are in the form of a technical anomaly or as a string of words that were chosen carelessly. I treat other people this way because of a firm belief I have in "The Golden Rule": treat others the way you'd like to be treated yourself. Apparently, many other people don't seem to see any value in that philosophy. I already knew that to be true in our society as a whole, but I just didn't expect it from some of the people that posted in that "fire" thread.

I can understand the bloodlust of LuvMeTender and Kat when put in context with some of the other things I've said in other threads. Our political philosophies are on opposite sides of the world. LuvMeTender apparently believes I'm trying to "bash the Democrats". I just tried to point out the huge failings of logic in the Democrats' attacks on the White House as well as her own baseless argument that Bush was solely responsible for the high gas prices. (see [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]) I can understand her not receiving that "correction" very well. Similarly, I can see where Kat severely disagrees with my political viewpoints and sees a nice opportunity to "put my feet to the fire". (see [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]) Those reactions are predictable in human behavior, so that doesn't bother me a whole lot - I expected as much from Kat and LuvMeTender, although I marvel that they are in the position of moderating these boards.

The thing that did bother me was the inability for others to accept my apology for my wording. These were other people who I thought were friends. One such person bowed out with a very aloof "buh bye". A couple of others were hesitant, but seemed to accept my apology, yet still seemed to think that I felt those people "deserved to die for their stupidity". Only one person stood out from the crowd, apparently conscientious enough to recognize that other people make mistakes and don't deserve the mob lynching mentality that prevailed. Thank you, Lori. Thanks also to a couple of others who showed support but weren't as vocal as Lori (Mayfly, Loca, Jessica, Pip, etc.).

I was definitely hurt by those responses and was intending to sit back a few days to let those hurts heal. I had intended on PM'ing one person in particular because I had noticed a deterioration in our online "relationship" soon after I failed to agree to her side of an issue involving someone else on the board some time ago. I didn't have all the facts and information to commit to taking her side, so I guess it offended her when I didn't "fall into line". Soon after that, she replied to many of my posts in the form of rolling eyes . Sorry, but I think it's unfair to me and the other party to demand that I blindly take your side in an issue that I have little knowledge of.

As I thought more about that thread, I became more offended by those reactions. So, I decided not to bother with the PMs and just write this instead. It's kind of an act of resignation, I know, but it's the way I'm feeling right now. I thought I had made some good friends on this site. Maybe my expectations were too high. I know when I treat people with respect and consideration that I am hoping for the same treatment from them. I know I won't get reciprocal treatment most of the time, but I somewhat expected that from some on this site who have gotten to know me better. It's different when you're on a highway and you let someone in your lane only to have that same driver refuse to return the courtesy to you several miles down the road. That person was a total stranger, so the lack of courtesy isn't as shocking.


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[jeskibuff]

I was saddened by the assault that Teraberry endured a little over a month ago. I didn't understand it all, as I wasn't involved with the "depression" discussions that led up to her "assault" and subsequent "exit". I tried reading some of them later, but they were so heavily edited by moderators that it was hard to determine what was said to prompt the criticism that ensued. I saw one thread where I was disheartened to see some of the harsh remarks made by people who I thought were fair-minded. It's hard to see those kind of remarks made by people you like when they're made against other people you like. See [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now] I understand that there was a high level of frustration involved at the time, so that has to be taken into consideration.

I was also dismayed about the attacks on DaizyMae. For those who weren't aware of what happened, "Daizy" was guilty of inventing a fictional person named MDelorisR who posted on DOD for a couple of months before she "died". "Daizy" wrote a tear-jerking obituary that fooled a lot of people, including me. Many people were greatly offended and lambasted "Daizy" once they found out it was all a hoax. I (once again) took an alternative view of the situation and tried to wonder why someone would do such a thing. Was it malicious? Was it a for-profit scam? The only thing I could think of is that "Daizy" was living a life devoid of the kind of love and compassion that all of us as humans crave and need. While her methods of trying to achieve that (vicariously through MDelorisR) were totally wrong and manipulative, I felt that she was in need of professional help instead of the vitriol that was being dished out. I can understand how people got so upset about the deception, but I think there's the possibility that I might be right in seeing "Daizy" as a living, breathing human being that made a big mistake, got too deep in playing a game that toyed with people's emotions and later realized the wrong she had done. She deserved a spanking...not the lynching that she got. Who here has not made mistakes, even big ones? The damage was done, and she expressed remorse and accepted the blame for her actions. Apparently some people don't believe in forgiveness. Cashhound was one of the few who did and vocalized my sentiments, so I agreed with her and got promptly harumphed! [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]

Again, that's just my opinion based on what I have seen and understood. I don't know the whole story, and I admit it. I am entitled to my point of view and you are entitled to yours.

Ah yes...opinions...something of which I have many. I'm not ashamed of my opinions and am vocal about them. I express them and explain why I believe in them. Apparently, some people are unable to understand this concept. I believe that there have been many interesting "conversations" on this board, all based on opinions. An interesting one was started by Jsalba about patronizing the French tourist industry. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now] Many people in that thread expressed their opinions and based them on actual experiences. Some people cited instances where the French were rude. Some cited instances where they were not. There was no final conclusion drawn, no final verdict reached. We did not determine to a certainty that the French were or were not rude. I'd like to believe that each of us walked away from that discussion more enlightened than we were before. We declared our opinions, backed them up with "facts" based on our experiences, yet did not prove or disprove a thing! Hopefully, we understood that the French are people just like us. There are great Americans and there are really, really rude Americans! To label all Frenchmen as rude may be just as wrong as labelling all Americans as rude. Anyway, the point is that an interesting discussion occurred where opinions and observations were used and no one seemed to get bent out of shape!

Another good thread (again, started by Jsalba - is there a pattern here? ) dealt with the Presidential address. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now] This was a nice example where we discussed a normally sensitive topic (politics) without getting nasty. To me, this is proof that it can be done. Some people don't seem capable of engaging in discussing "sensitive" issues in a calm and rational manner. Some people run away from conflict altogether ("I don't do politics"). I was hoping we could have many more such civil discussions. I don't shy away from talking politics, racial issues or religion. I think such discussions are invaluable towards striving for a better world and understanding each other.

I was surprised to learn that a post was deleted in which I supposedly made a "racial" remark. (see the end of [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now]) Sure enough, all of what I wrote was replaced by "Edited to remove racial remarks...". Just what did I say that was so bad? I used the "b" word (not the "n" word) to describe some people I work with ("b" = black). Apparently, this was NOT ACCEPTABLE, for what reason, I can only wonder. Was it my statement, or did someone respond to my post in a racially-charged fashion? It'd be nice to know. NOTHING I said was racist. I would be glad to attempt to recreate the post. I'm sure Chippers read it, as it followed her post by just minutes. She could probably verify that my "re-creation" of the original post was somewhat accurate. I just think the moderator (Kat, once again) had an itchy trigger finger on her "politically correct" stun gun. To make any statement, good or bad, about any other race is apparently racist, according to her. By replacing my words with her words (that imply that I'm a racist bigot) is totally unfair to me. Or, perhaps this was Kat's intent all along.

To reiterate, I try to treat people according to "The Golden Rule" and that applies to people of ALL color. I am white, but I had close black friends long before it became "politically correct" to "embrace diversity" - way back in the early 1970's. To imply that I made racist comments is ludicrous to me. If they could have been misinterpreted as racist, Kat should have left the words untouched for other people to judge for themselves. My theory is that she has a major reading comprehension problem. She exhibited it in the "fire" thread when I was talking about stopped traffic and ambulances. Others (notably Sblme2 recognized that she did not understand what was written. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Either login above or Register Now] There was no subsequent apology for her blatant misinterpretation of my words there either, but I didn't expect that there would be. There have been other threads where racist remarks were made and other people's jaws dropped. Don't you wonder why were there no other comments made in that thread about my so-called "racist" remarks?

I'm obviously disappointed. Maybe my expectations are way too high? Maybe I should just accept that it goes against the grain to expect people to want to better the world in which they live? Maybe I should strive to not disturb someone's protective bubble when I challenge their thoughts and belief systems? Maybe I should accept that no matter what I believe about treating people according to "The Golden Rule", that I should understand that it will seldom be reciprocated? Maybe I should always hop on the bandwagon and join the feeding frenzy instead of trying to see things from a slightly different point of view? Maybe I should understand that people would rather play a game of "ABCs of things you find in the bathroom" rather than engage in something a little more mentally stimulating? Maybe it's just stupid wishful thinking to expect moderators to try to be fair instead of applying the extra powers that they were entrusted with to advance their own agendas?

Maybe my standards are too lofty, but that's what standards are for - to set goals that are hard to reach. We had a President a couple of years ago that dropped the national standards to unprecedented lows. We've had education standards in our schools that have plummeted to miniscule levels. DOD obviously has very low standards that are used to qualify moderators. I prefer sticking with the higher standards. They're harder to reach and you're likely to suffer more defeats in trying to attain them, but the alternative is deplorable to me. That's just my opinion - so sue me!


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[blueaguave]

I don't know all the details of those specific threads, but these boards have turned vicious, dude, its every Man, Woman, and Child for themselves, Republican, Democrat, vegetable, animal, mineral don't matter. At least I got NaomiMarie watching my back.

[mayfly]

Jeskibuff, I have missed you bud. I have tried to contact you, but now I see why you weren't getting them. Last night a post got deleted, and really that was my last straw. I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I am feeling really hurt. This bites.

[dlabrie708]

Jeski....glad to see you back on the boards finally! I hope to see MANY more posts from you...of course, a little less wordy... . See, I know how to use the winky winky smiley...lol!

You truly have been missed. Welcome back!

Lori

[freesurfer]

Jeski, I miss ya in games.....get over there!~!!!

[rualakin]

Jetskibuff.... just in defense of the "b" word of which you spoke:
I have "black" aquaintances who really resent being called African Americans as they are 1. Cuban, 2. Puerto Rican, 3. Phillipino
my dark skinned Samoan aquaintances prefer to be called Islander as that more accurately describes their culture.
Let's remember folks, that even some African Americans don't care if you are that politically correct and being called "black" is perfectly fine.
As a pale white woman, what do I know? LOL But those who wish to be referred to in a specific way are very polite about how they wish to be addressed. They are proud of their culture as they should be! Sometimes I think political correctness can go a bit far here and everywhere!

Love to all....
rual

[Shainie]

Jeski - I couldn't agree with you more with everything you said. Lately I've been thinking I'm the only one who has been seeing the Moderators edit to suit their own beliefs . . . . glad it's not just me.

[weacross3]

Originally posted by Shainie
Jeski - I couldn't agree with you more with everything you said. Lately I've been thinking I'm the only one who has been seeing the Moderators edit to suit their own beliefs . . . . glad it's not just me.

I just wanted to add that I agree too. Shainie, I saw your two posts (in other threads) prior to your editing, and have to say that I think you hit the nail on the head. Something needs to be done before this board is merely a place to congratulate others on how many non-contoversial posts they can make.

[chippers21]

I read every word and checked out every reference Jeski. If I said something along the way that was critical I sincerely apologize. Once in a while my strong political and religious beliefs get in the way of good judgment.
I consider you a friend. I have never found your posts objectionable(at least anything I can remember). I do find some of the mods reactions objectionable. I recently had a post moved to prayer requests for simply mentioning that I felt the best thing I could do was pray ( I never requested that others pray so the bump was totally uncalled for) "Prayer" is apparently an unacceptable word in "General Chit-Chat"
I hope you will keep posting your opinions here. I have always enjoyed your intelligent, thoughtful interpretations of current events. We need you here to help balance everything out.
Take care. Liz/chippers

[freesurfer]

Maybe I should understand that people would rather play a game of "ABCs of things you find in the bathroom" rather than engage in something a little more mentally stimulating

So you want to come back and play this game with me?? I have stuck to games because of these problems...and lately started posting more...but I can see that certain mods are still playing their games with us. Truely saddening.


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[mayor]

Sigh... several people have brought this to my attention.

Our mods do the best they can, but you have to realize that these boards are dynamic.. the things they have to deal with are constantly changing.

However, I am asking them to ease up a bit because we are in a unique time and place in history. People really feel a need to discuss the war, and it is impossible to discuss it without politics, faith and emotion entering the discussion.

Personal attacks will NOT be tolerated. That is still an excellent reason to delete or move a post or thread. What I'd really like to see is MORE DEALS, thus the deal-posting contest coming up this week.

So, I want you folks to feel free to discuss whatever is on your mind. We still reserve the right to delete or move any thread, but I am hoping things can remain civil. As long as everyone knows the difference between disagreeing with an idea and attacking an individual, I think we'll be ok... I hope.

Mayor

[jeskibuff]

Originally posted by mayor
Our mods do the best they can, but you have to realize that these boards are dynamic.. the things they have to deal with are constantly changing.

Sorry Mayor,
But inferring that someone has made racist remarks because they talked about "black" people in their workplace is beyond dealing with emotional topics such as war or religion. I made no personal attacks...I merely made some comments/observations about some people I talk with at work and spoke openly and honestly as if they were in front of me. To call those remarks racist was a stretch of the imagination. To delete those words and leave the thread with the idea that those remarks were racist and bigoted is an enormous insult. This is moderator abuse that I'm not willing to put up with. As long as someone with a proven agenda and inability to understand the English language has such power to alter my words, I choose to not have to deal with it.


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[jeskibuff]

Originally posted by rualakin
I have "black" aquaintances who really resent being called African Americans as they are 1. Cuban, 2. Puerto Rican, 3. Phillipino my dark skinned Samoan aquaintances prefer to be called Islander as that more accurately describes their culture.
Let's remember folks, that even some African Americans don't care if you are that politically correct and being called "black" is perfectly fine.

I don't think Saturday Night Live is very funny anymore, but there was a skit on a while ago when Charlize Theron (a VERY attractive very WHITE actress born in South Africa) was being referred to as an "African American". It was a great common sense slap-in-the-face to those idiots who are so adamant about being "politically correct".

[jeskibuff]

Originally posted by chippers21
If I said something along the way that was critical I sincerely apologize. Once in a while my strong political and religious beliefs get in the way of good judgment.

I appreciate your consideration, chippers, but I can't recall EVER being offended by anything you've said. I too consider you a friend and appreciate your kind words.